Bf 109E found intact......

Wait for me and I will try not to get killed.

 

( Friedrich's post : I can agree with the other two bits, but.. intellectual ?....... )

 

Well, Indy was a professor, wasn't he?

I think we can start our own forums-expiditions...

 

I agree with Stevin!!!

And Martin... (Why aren't here any obcene signs with the hand instead of happy faces?)

 

Does anyone has experience with searching remains of WWII? Or are we just go there and just dig? I tried that once in Seelow with a friend. We had some nice days with interesting visits of museums but found nothing. Can the intellectual make a plan?

 

Volkbert--if you dig somewhere and find human remains--notify authorities. Also you have to watch out for unexploded ordenance--bombs-mines-mortar shells etc.

 

Volkbert :

You are serious correct ? It depends what you are digging for and in what country. If you are interested in the remains of the dead then you must contact local and military authorities. If you are looking for a/c artifacts, armor or even medals you still may have a problem as there could be still soldiers remains attached and in most cases unless authorities are contacted and/or present at the time of digging it may be very forbidden ! Up in barren areas such as the Seelowe heights it may not have been a problem, but if you would of found something say at least 2 meteres in length, then who knows.....
I can say fromforemer aircraft digs that I have had a hand on that more than just interested parties attended. It was amazing to me how fast the TV media picked up on what my friends were doing. Now in another case which I am an onlooker at present, is a dear friend fromNorway who has been picking through German a/c and artillery remains for years along with his brother and father. At leat 12 others know about the area of their digs and there seems to be no problems as long as no one unearths ammuniton then the professionals/ arms /bomb squads would have to be called in to dispose of said articles....

E

 

Sadly, in Holland the emphasis lies with armament, were the government is concerned. The air force will only dig up a plane when the major of a town asks them too and they are not willing to do so because it'll cost their town many $$$$. When there is still ordenance on board they HAVE to dig it up. Or when next of kin specifically request it. And even then it might take a while...It is all a $$$$ game. Up until now the Dutch government payed a certain amount to do the job, but that'll be over soon. They have no interest in recovering bodies. Their official policy is that these are fieldgraves now. Which is fine as long as they are marked and recognized as such....I feel...

I know of a case were 5 of a halifax crew is still buried with their plane but they will not be recovered because the Halifax was on its way back from it target. So it didn't have bombs on board. So, no direct danger to the area. All 7 of the crew are officially buried in Nijmegen Jonkerbos Cemetery. I visited their graves. Yet five of them are still with their plane about 100 km's away. If you don't want to excavate the bodies, fine, but at least have the decency the mark the site with the 5 markers which should be there....

 

Thanks for all the replies on the digging plans. I heard something of the fact that some countries forbid it. But it's not clear to me where I can find out what is forbidden in what country. I can understand that it has to do with explosives and human remains. That are not really the things I hope to find although I know you can encounter them. I haven't got the idea that I will dig up great medals or so but it's the excitement of finding something. An old gasmask, warrant disk, belt buckle etc.
But like I said I have almost no experience with it.But I like to hear from experiences of others.

 

Hi Volkbert - I've been watching this discussion with interest. I love finding relics - somehow, I get a sudden feeling of a tangible link to history...

If you want the big stuff ( MG42s,etc ) then you're into digging, metal detectors and visits from Authority ! But, it is amazing what you can find by just crouching down and looking - very intently. You need to research areas where there has been intensive fighting, or fighting over a long period. Ditches, hedgerows and edges/corners of fields after ploughing are good areas to search.

Some of my own favourites are a bag full of finds from the Falaise Gap ( 2cm cases, shell fragments, vehicle parts, a K98 cleaning kit tin, mortar fins, etc ), a 8.8cm mortar round in the Ardennes ( didn't bring that one back ! ), fired 303 rounds from Oosterbeek. And then there are pieces of alloy, perspex and .50 calibre bullets from a field in Norfolk where a B24 crashed.

All the comments about live munitions apply - just use common sense. That Ardennes mortar shell for example - I left it untouched but photographed it.
Have fun !

 

I think that there will be two places to check later on for stuff on WW2:
Russia and the Balkans.
They both are a bit dangerous,as you cannot be sure what might happen to you if you go to the smaller villages. As well the Bosnia area is heavily mined these days again, and some 100 years is expected to pass before the mines are cleared enough for tourists to walk there. The idiots did not make maps for the mines!!As well the spring floods move the mines so nothing is certain. In ´97 almost every day someone local walked into a mine and lost a leg so it is dangerous to step off the asphalt there.
Macedonia was not in war so it should be mine free except for border areas.
Northern Croatia is dangerous. War was there. The coastal area of Croatia should be clear.

SOme of our soldier boys checked the villages and I think found old WW2 time motor cycles by the Germans.
As well there are loads of T34´s around still in use in Bosnia.

In Russia actually not much of war debris has been cleared. The Finns go every year there and find in many battle places skeletons and dog tags of dead Finns still.I think they found our President´s machine gun from where he had left it in 1944 still in place ( Mauno Koivisto is his name ).The only problem is the Russian Mafia, as you cannot be sure of your security there. The police is as well rotten and might put you in jail for nothing and get your money-you´re lucky if you get away with just losing your money, and not get beaten or anything else...
Maybe with time this will change.

 

Kai-Petri--I think you are right about Russia. There is much to find about WWII and it is dangerous to go there.
On the internet are some interesting websites about what you can find in Russia. Please check these out and you will be amazed. They even found a complete Sturmgeschutz.
http://www.dbm.fromru.com/index.htm

I also knew a site about the Stalingrad battlefield. If you wanted you could visit it. Unfortunately I cannot find the link anymore.

I visited Russia for militaria once. In 2001 I went to Kaliningrad (formerly known as Königsberg) with two friends. I read in a newspaper that you can buy militaria at every corner on the street. I hoped that the prices were a bit low. I only found one little shop and his prices were not very good. Better than on the internet but not really cheap. I even bought an item too expensive. At that time my colection was not so big and I had not seen very much militaria. So I didn't try to negotiate about the prices.

I got trouble with a police officer because I parked alongside the road and that was not allowed. He was right but I had not seen the sign and there were about ten cars parked there so I just parked behind the last one. As soon as I stopped the car a police officer was beside me and started to talk in the Russian language. I didn't understand so I only looked at him. Then he said in German driver's license. I gave my license and he didn't want to return it to me. I had to pay him DM50 and must come with him in the car. He filled in a lot of paperwork, I paid DM50 and I got my license back.

But that's not the whole story. When we tried to go out of the country we came in a row and it took us 15 hours before we crossed the border. I can write a complete story about it but I want to keep tis posting not too long.

A few weeks ago I heard on television that Kalinigrad is full with Russian maffia. I think we were lucky it costed us only DM50. I drove their with my fairly new car with Dutch number plates. A prey for these scumbags.

I am not going very soon back to Russia. However I think you must have some friends there that you can really trust. It must be fun to search there with some friends. On one of the sites I saw they found a box with 20 unissued CCC.

Anybody friends in Russia here???

 

Thanks for posting this Volbert. Sorry they gave you a rough time. About two years ago--a friend of mine who was in the Dutch Army and several Army friends--rented a travel trailer and went to tour some battlefields in russia. They went to the Stalingrad area and picked up several russian and german helmets--and other things. When they tried to cross the border--they were stopped and searched.

They were held for 10 hours, and each had to pay roughly $250.00 US Dollars--to get released. All the items they had was confiscated.

At least I never got hasseled anywhere in germany or Switzerland--when I was there.

In Goslar--where I picked up a Luftwaffe Officers M-43 capat an Antiquitaten and Militaria shop. I had my hands full of stuff and couldnt carry much of anything else as it would get crushed--so not thinking about it--I put the Luftwaffe Officers cap on mein kopf, and simply walked down the strasse untill Susanne and I reached her Audi, and put it all away.

We had passed a policeman along the way and he inquired as to why I was wearing a Lug=ftwaffe cap and I explained that I had no other way of carrying it without crushing it and all he said was no problem, just dont keep it in view longer than possible. I said I knew it was against the law to show off something with a swaz--but I had no choice--Susannes arms were full of the things she bought.

Needless to say--that policeman was cool about it. We reached the car, and we put our things in it and then went to Goslars Town Square, and found a very nice place to eat lunch at. It is a nice restaurant located just across the street from an apartment building that Rommel and Guderian both had once lived in in the mid to late 1930's.

 

Carl, So you also have bad experiences with the Russians. Like I said, you need to have some good friends over there that can help you. But I haven't so I keep on checking websites for militaria and pay high prices.

Do you have an address of the store in Goslar? Maybe I can visit it when I am in Germany.

 

Hi Volkbert: it wasnt me with the problems with th4e russians--it was a friend of mine who is serving in the Dutch Army--and a group of his friends.

When I was in Germany--I met two very nice Russian ladies. One was origionally from St. Petersburg and lives somewhere near Konstanz--permanently. The other was a tall-and VERY beautiful blonde-haired blue-eyed beauty I had met at a place in Konstanz with the initials of K.P. It was a gentlemans club.

The place in Goslar is on Breitestrasse, and is owned by a man with the last name of Menzel. I dont know what I did with his business card--it must be packed away somewhere. Anyway--his shop has a sign that says: "Antiquitaten und Militaria"

If you visit Goslar--just go to Breitestrasse--you cannot miss it. It is just inside the old city gateway.

 

Carl you didn't have any money, you must have told them you blew your load on the militaria already and they left you alone.

 

Tell ya what--you ever go to Goslar--you will blow a load on Menzels Militaria. His place would drive the two Ricks crazy with all the Imperial stuff alone.

 

Carl- Thanks for the adress. One one my Germany tours I will sure pass by Goslar.

 

Hi Volkbert--sorry I couldnt find the business card with his full address. Last I heard--he was still doing well in the military and antique business. I asked another wellknown dealerr about a report on his status--and he said Menzel was still in business.

Reason I sasked is, that he had been in a bit of trouble with the German Authorities--thanks to his ex-girlfriend. But that problem seems to have been cleared up.