Discussion in 'Political Cartoons & Caricatures' started by GRW, Mar 29, 2019.
Just going to leave this here...
kind of get it, can you give just a little more info-
how do you and yours feel about the situation?
to this Canadian, seems like Brexit is dragging its heels.
my view from across the pond is that the people voted to divest, but the globalists are trying every trick to prevent the majorities wishes there.
pardon me Mr H, if I have an utterly ignorant view.
I'm interested in what's going on yonder.
Canada is yet to face a reckoning similar to what's happening in a few European countries (rejection of globalist/liberal ideology).
Don't ask - happy Brexit day.
Don't fool yourselves, the Queen is not concerned about Brexit...
Let's call it the updated version of Guy Fawkes.
We should have left yesterday, Pop, except all our inbred "betters" in Parliament are shit scared of losing their backhanders from Europe. Not helped by the SNP, Labour, Greens and various tv "slebs" sticking their effing noses in and backstabbing the Government at every opportunity.
Assuming there's actually a turnout at the next election (and at the moment, why bother if your decision has to be "approved" by the afore-mentioned "betters"), there's going to be a lot of former MPs working at McDonalds. My former SNP MP is currently working as a pub bouncer; and he still doesn't understand why the rest of us voted him out.
Aye, maybe the wrong side won the civil wars..
Looking at this from the far side of the pond its tough to have a great deal of sympathy. The government that called for the Brexit vote really screwed the pooch as we say over hear, thinking it would be rejected. Not sure those who voted to leave fully grasped what a leave vote would mean to the UK.
Now facing the sticky questions of the Irish border, Brits living and working in Europe and the ease of imports/exports has seemed to caught Parliament and the people by surprise. To be honest I feel more sorry for Europe here. The UK had a sweetheart deal to begin with and then decided that wasn't good enough. Now they want a painless exit that gives them all the benefits of EU membership with none of its responsibilities.
I really don't want the UK to suffer, but think its time for the EU to impose a 'hard' break and let the UK pick up the pieces. Maybe they will have a new vote and choose to stay or they will have to make the hard choices themselves instead of the EU doing it for them.
Before someone yells 'pot calling the kettle black', yes we have a similar problem here. At least half the country wanted Mueller to find a way to remove Trump short of a election and are having a conniption fit because Mueller tossed back to Congress to due the only legal thing they can, Impeach or wait until November 2020.
It meant we were leaving the EU. It wasn't rocket science.
And Brits lived and worked abroad long before we joined the EU, and will continue to do so long after we leave. Regardless to what the usual suspects keep implying, no-one's going to die when we leave.
There was no "sweetheart deal"; Thatcher fought long and hard for concessions that the EU weren't prepared to give us.
What we're actually seeing here in opposition to Brexit Is the "groupthink" mentality; the same bunch who spend their lives looking for the Next Big Thing to be part of because they can't stand the idea of individuality. I've got a cousin in Australia, married to an Australian, who still whinges about being "European" and wants to be a European citizen. She seriously spoke about applying for an EU passport not that long ago, until I pointed out she's not actually in Europe any more. It didn't go down at all well.
It's not about a "painless exit" and "the benefits of EU", it's about the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic which the EU demands and many in Britain don't want.
Brexit is a good thing, the EU was nice when it was just a common market without customs and tariffs plus the Schengen free movement area.
The EU today is all about a big government ruling Europe and that's wrong.
It replaces the political plurality of nations with a political monoculture, free exchange of ideas with preventive censorship, free enterprise with bureaucracy.
It's a place where new revolutionary inventions like SpaceX, Tesla, Blue Origin will never happen.
Even Virgin Orbit had to be incorporated in the US despite its British roots.
This is far from the whole picture.
Lets get this straight.
The aim of the European movement - from the 1940s onwards was to defuse the power of nationalism to cause violent conflict in Europe that engulfed the whole world on two occasions in the C20th. This is in the statement of aims of the European coal and steel community in 1950 and referred to in the preamble of the treaty of Rome. By enabling the freedom of movement of people, goods services and capital it does not matter any more whether you are a Frenchman living in Germany; a German living in Poland, and Austrian in Italy or a Briton retiring in Spain, or my children seeking somewhere cheaper than London to live. It also diffuses the claims of e..g Irish nationalists in Northern Ireland or Austrian nationalists in the South Tyrol. What are you arguing about if everyone has the same rights whichever country's flag is flying?
Over the last decades I have taken thousands of visitors to the battlefields of the world wars. On almost every visit to those of the Western Front someone will utter the words, Why? or "Wasn't there a better way" Well that is the problem that the EU tried to solve.
This is a big thing. It isn't a particularly new thing, but an effort worth supporting rather than disparaging. Do the Europhobes who pray for the downfall pf the EU really want to return to a Europe of warring nation states?
It is disingenuous cakeism to claim that the EU are being unreasonable by demanding that both sides of the Irish border are part of the same customs regime. (Cakeism? It is is one of the words of the year for 2018. It is from the policy of the Brexiteers to want to have their cake and eat it. It means to have the benefits of the EU and be outside it at the same time. It was taken from the notes spotted on a pad of a civil servant leaving a Brexit meeting in No 10 visitor in 2017. Policy = have cake and eat it.) You can't have an open border with different customs regimes and standards on either side. No one believes that technology will be found to police such a border - least of all the Brextremists or the DUP.
No one knows what the Queen's view of the EU is. Maybe she regrets national sovereignty. Maybe, as the head of the UK branch of a German family business with representative in Denmark. Norway and Spain, and married to a Greek refugee she has more European sentiments....
The EU like the proverbial generals fights the last (political) war.
After ww2 nobody was going to wage aggressive wars in Europe, two world wars were enough for everybody, and wars became too destructive by that time.
The ww1 was the usual great powers' chess game that went wrong.
Polish, French, British, American nationalisms actually saved Europe from Nazism and communism. Communism wasn't nationalistic and it was the greater, most murderous long term threat - and actually very like a (rogue) EU.
The EU protect us from evil like the rock that was sold to Homer Simpson protected him from tigers.
The threat was/is nonexistent - the freedoms and diversity they will destroy are real, thanks to the classic "two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner" dilemma.
Hmm. Some dodgy history here.
Arguably the Communists of the Soviet Union did more to defeat Fascism than the combined efforts of British French and Polish nationalists!
It was the internationalists within the USA led by Roosevelt who formed the United Nations as an antio fasscist alliance around the Atlantic Charter. America First was the slogan of the isolationist American Nationalists. The American Memorials in Europe included statues symbolising the sacrifices made by the new world to save the old.
Warfare did not stop in 1945. The wars after the break up of Yugoslavia demonstrated the risks of conflict within Europeans. Common NATO membership did not stop war between the Turks and Greeks. Membership of the EU is a calming measure. It is only the Brextremists who are still pretending it is 1900, wqith Boris Johnson threatening war with Spain over Gibraltar....
There is nothing rogue about the EU. It is an association of democratic states who agree to pool sovereignty for the common, and their own national good. All international treaties trade sovereignty for influence., The only truly sovereign state is North Korea.
Besides the absence from war Britons have personally benefited from EU membership. Travel and trade are far easier. hundreds of thousands of Britons have retired to France Italy and Spain, with no need to learn the language, prove financial worth or pass citizenship tests. I am old enough to remember how much we were ripped off before we joined the Single market. I bought my first car tax free as a serviceman. I owned it for a year in Germany and two years in the UK, then sold by three year old second hand car hand for more than I paid. That is how much of the price of the car was tax and price barriers for the privilege of a sovereign market. Single market membership has also eroded the price differentials and tax on drink. There is a study which estimates that booze id about one third cheaper - worth £9 Bn.
There is a third moral issue. The freedom of movement enshrined in EU membership is in line with Christian teaching. At the United Guilds Services on 29th March I heard the Lord Mayor of London read Matthew 25 v 31- end. Read and apply to Brexit. The righteous welcome strangers and clothe the naked. Those that do not welcome strangers, ignore the hungry and thirsty up in in eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Many of those who advocate leaving the EU do so out sovereign nationalism or in the pursuit of a freed trade economy. However, they do so as fellow travelers of the xenophobes and racists. Not everyone who voted to leave is a racist but the racists voted leave. It isn't politically correct to say so, but the people who wanted to celebrate Brexit were white and chose to be addressed by people who incite racial hated. John Snow's comment on channel four was a statement of the obvious. ....Channel 4 apologises after Jon Snow’s Brexit protest comments
And did more harm than the National Socialists.
The EU is along the lines of the current 'snowflake' generation...whitewashing everything to be the same, removing ones sense of self-identity. Its almost like some of those 'Utopia' movies, where everyone takes the same drugs that makes them into mindless zombies, and no one stands up for themselves.
The EU is also like Communism - it looks great on paper but in reality not so much. Look at the bailouts Greece and (I think) Spain needed that basically Germany had to fund. I wouldn't want to sign up for something where my successful business/economy/money has to be used to bailout some one who can't get their crap together.
The Open-Borders is an interesting concept but its not always beneficial. Look at all the terrorism in Europe - especially all the attacks in Paris - that originated from neighboring countries, but because their are no border checks, they were allowed to move freely within the EU. I do have to wonder if border-checks would have deterred or made some of these attacks harder, or at least made it easier to track the assailants as they moved about.
Brexit...is a mess. There is no two ways about it. I feel like they're just dragging their feet in every way possible in the hopes that people will say "Sod it, lets forget about the whole deal" and keep things as they are. I don't think there is a simple solution to it, but I don't think whatever happens will be as bad as the fearmongering makes it out to be. I am actually surprised, now that I am thinking about it, that the Royal Family hasn't weighed in on anything - not so much their thoughts on the subject, but to whip the Gov't into shape or light a fire under them to get them moving forward!
Uh oh I seem to have stirred up a tempest here.
I am sure that to many in the UK the concessions won to join the EU was nothing less than their due, but as with all things there are at least two sides to any political argument and many Europeans thought the UK did get a 'sweetheart deal' to join.
There are strong similarities to the BREXIT vote in the UK and the rise of Trumpism here in the US. A vague feeling by a certain portion of the population that they were no longer living in the same country of their youth and a simple bold action will somehow will solve all their problems.
Trump supporters believe a 30 foot concrete wall from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific will solve our drug abuse problem, end gang violence, stop terrorist's from sneaking into the country, end illegal immigration, put Americans back to work and resolve their economic dislocation.
The truth is far more complex. Currently our more serious drug problem cones from a Opium crisis foisted on us by our domestic big pharma, for every gang member with ties to MS13 there are a dozen members who are home grown, terrorism has come, not from Middle-Eastern Islamic sources but from white men, the biggest jump in illegal immigration now is from people coming in thru ports of entry and over staying their Visa's, unemployment is at a historic statistical low and economic dislocation is due to changes in technology and choices made by American business.
A 300 foot high wall will not solve these issues for America. Nor will make us 1950 again.
For the UK a exit isn't going to restore Rule Britannia, nor was the 50's, 60's and 70's all that great. Shortages, nationalization, Suez, the Troubles, the dissolution of Empire et all were the norm.
There are no simple solutions, no Gordian Knots that can be cut.
That's about as naive as it gets. You clearly haven't spent any time in Scotland listening to SNP fanatics who won't accept anything less than total independence from the rest of the universe, not just Britain.
Bigger isn't always better; that's a piece of BS from the 1960s when creating super firms was the in thing. And having created them and eliminated the opposition, they got complacent, turned out crap goods no-one wanted, and disappeared down the u-bend.
You're conveniently forgetting not every country in Europe is an EU member, so this idea of Brexit supporters being twisted dinosaurs is yet more patronising bollocks. We're not the only country which doesn't feel the need to belong.
California isn't the only US state which occasionally spouts about seceding from the union, so clearly not everyone relishes the "joys" of all being happy little campers together.
Show me someone desperate to stay in the EU, and I'll show you someone desperate not to lose EU funding of some description. That's what it always boils down to.
The Communists of the Soviet Union enabled the war. They sicced Hitler on France and Britain, protected his back, showered Germany with war materiel hopping for a beneficial to them collapse of Western civilization.
Yes, the internationalists within the USA led by Roosevelt formed the United Nations at the cost of selling out to the genocidal Stalin, created an organization which achieved basically nothing.
Not to mention their initial idea of Four Policemen:
The Four Policemen would be responsible for keeping order within their spheres of influence: Britain in its empire and in Western Europe; the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe and the central Eurasian landmass; China in East Asia and the Western Pacific; and the United States in the Western hemisphere. As a preventive measure against new wars, countries other than the Four Policemen were to be disarmed. Only the Four Policemen would be allowed to possess any weapons more powerful than a rifle.
The Parable of the Ten Virgins has nothing to do with anything. Its modern, creative "interpretation" is a typical leftist false flag operation under the guise of Christianity.
It doesn't say we have to lodge strangers for free in our houses forever.
Try to open the external borders, hundreds of millions in Africa are waiting.
Allow Europe wide retirement shopping and all European retirees will end up in Britain and Germany.
Nothing wrong with a common market, everything wrong with Europe ruled from a single city.
Plurality gives resilience needed in hard times, monoculture is deadly - ask any geneticist.
btw is this true?