China vs Japan

Or perhaps be accused of being "trigger happy" as US troops often are by some of their "allies"

 

Now i don't see why the US has to be brought in this time.Is this an attempt to create another heated discussion?

 

Kaiser, it's Grieg! He never misses a cue.

I think I am in agreement with him though. Modern western militaries are often too concerned with political correctness and diminishing collateral damage to adequately do their job. If they do, the media are all over them asking questions. This is why they would be less effective than the armed forces of more disciplinarian states like Japan or China.

 

I have to agree though...Rules of Engagement really can hamper a fighting unit's ability and initiative.Just ask me and i can tell you all the stories of really screwed up management.

 

kaiser, im quit aware that many peoples of the pacific rim regard a remilitarized japan with fear and loathing (with good reason ) ...but ,ponder this..if the chinese military should get it in their heads to invade any asian country or even russia for that matter ,who do you suppose would be able to stop them ?...the brits and uncle sam? the u.n.? ha ha ...perhaps the philipenos and singapore ? mabey austrailia and new zealand....thats right...nobody ..we raelly need the sleeping warrior spirets of both the japanese and the german peoples to be reawakened ..these econmic dynamos have little to gain from the aspirations of their grandfathers in the 1930s...we need them back in the ball game ,america and britain cannot be the only military force defending the free world..we havent the manpower ,nor as roel pointed out the hardness required to stand alone...

 

I am quite aware that China's ambitions certainly doesn't stop at economic greatness.But being a Chinese myself, one of our greatest traits is being patient and pragmatic with a confucian touch in it. China would not risk a confrontation with the States.An invasion of any Asian countries would simply means war with the rest of Southeast Asia(if your unaware,there's this thing called ASEAN).In fact,Singapore's position is safe if u read the map.The Chinese Army would be fighting a very long and hard war in the jungles of Vietnam,cambodia and myanmar just to reach Thailand and Malaysia.

So if your Chinese,you would hardly want such a war.Besides,Taiwan rightfully belongs to China in my opinion.

As to your last sentence Majorwoody, is that many people of this free world have mixed feelings to the so called international policeman.While we are grateful that there is a police patroling the streets.We also hate the fact that sometimes,the policeman is the judge also.

 

well ..of course ,it could be a lot worse ...we could be like hitler, stalin ,mao and pol pot ...and be policeman, judge and lord high executioner...its like roel says... we are a lot more like judge judy than judge dread...imagine... in occupied singapore in 1942 a chinese underground guy pops out of a crowded street ,fires at a jap collum then fades back into the crowd ,,,the jap soldiers of course ,being careful not to fire into the crowd ,give foot chase to the insurgent but he escapes into a church and the jappers not wanting to offend the locals cease the pursuit...after all the japanese as we all know, adhered to very strict rules of engagement...its a shame .. the us military today is so... brutal!

 

I'm amazed at how you can drag us all back into the subject of the US military when we are not at all concerned with the US here in this topic.

In fact,before we start getting personal.Your just taking every slight remark about the west or US and turning it into a big hoo-ha

 

well ...no you said that you liked us picking up the tab for the worlds police protection ,but you hated it when the police (ie us military ) was also the judge...which actually i not really sure what you mean by that.. i merely pointed out that compared to most... er,judges through out history the us military,is very soft on crime... ...btw why would you think the people of taiwan would want to be absorbed into the workers paradise?i doubt many in singapore or hong kong would desire to be swallowed up by the peoples liberation army..

 

SingaPORE doesn't even belong to China in the first place.Find me living proof and i'll concede this point.

 

your right and neither should the millions of chinese who made the great leap foward out of china to hong kong,taiwan ,singapore and points beyond..most leaving home and hearth with only the shirts on their backs ...thankful to be anywhere at all except on the ship steared by the great helmsman,the prc..i dont have the figures on the numbers of people fleeing these places back into mainland china.... pehaps you have some idea .. ,kaiser?

 

Perhaps we can save much time if you will read my posts more carefully and intepret my terrible English before you type anything my dear friend

 

Kaiser:

I believe if the USA and China ever cross swords... it will be over Taiwan.
I can't see the PRC entertaining an invasion of the main islands of Japan, but the issue of Taiwan being seen as a "Rogue State" is a sensitive topic with China. I do believe the Chinese would consider a direct invasion of Taiwan if "the stars were in proper alignment." The Chinese actually threatened war over the diplomatic recognition of Taiwan by nation-states of the world.
Of course the USA is bound to defend Taiwan if China attempts landings on Taiwanese soil. Same agreement--I believe--is in place concerning the defense of Japan.
Many Americans are of the opinion that China is competing unfairly in trade, devaluing their currency in order to undermine the American trade deficit. Perhaps China will be content to be a world economic power... and not a military one.
I'm not so sure.

Tim

 

Hoosier, Does the USA really care about Taiwan or Tibet enough to go to war with China (of all nations!) over it? Taiwan is not going to be treated like Kuwait, because the agressor is a military superpower and an 'ally' of America... Going to war with China would be a costly and frankly stupid affair, and sorry to say so but the freedom of Taiwan really isn't worth it... Even in a worst case scenario, America never risked losing much in the invasion with Iraq, where the ramafications of America going to war with China extend all the way to full-scale nuclear war...

No matter what China does to Tibet, America will not interfere... China could commit genocide and the worst they would get is a few trade restrictions, simply because they are such a powerful country... Whether or not they are as powerful as America is not an issue, the fact is they are at least powerful enough to make a war very, very costly, and for that reason no-one, not even America would be willing to intervene militarily

 

i wonder ...does the prc have the sealift on hand to get an army across the straights of formosa..i know at one time the prc had something like 6000 mig 15s and 17s ..what is the state of the prc,s airforce today?

 

At the very least, it is better than Japan's airforce... Not only is it 9 times larger, but arguably more sophisticated as new aircraft technology is at least developing in China...

Japan only has about 500 combat aircraft, most of which are old outdated F-4E Phantoms, the only capable fighter they have is 1990 downgraded export model F-15's... China however posesses almost 400 Su-27 variants including the J-11, which I'll wager alone could knock out the Japanese air force... As well as that the Chinese are developing their OWN combat aircraft, including the J5 and the very capable 4th generation fighter, the J-10 Chengdu. The Chinese have been developing their own aircraft since the 50's, all of which are quite good. Whens the last time you heard Japan had produced anything in the aviation department

China's air force may not be the best in the world by any means, but as this topic is entitled China vs Japan, I have included a picture of what China's fighters are up against...

 

Hoosier:
Very objective view of the situation.I must agree that as much as the Americans won't go to war over Taiwan,China 's commitment to a war over Taiwan seems unlikely in the near forseeable future.Both sides risk losing alot if war takes place.And if by chance,this war happens,no one will know when it will end unless one side completely destroys the other.

 

smeg:
I don't believe that the USA would ever intervene in Tibet.. regardless of the situation there.
Taiwan however is a different beast entirely. Perhaps it goes as far back as the relationship of the USA with the Nationalist Chinese government in the Second World War. For whatever reason(s), the USA has supported the people of Taiwan and have pledged to defend them. IF the USA failed to make good on it's promise... it would send a very negative message to the rest of our allies. Our failure to honor our pledges would undermine future relationships with our trusted-allies.
The Chinese intend to reuite Taiwan with the PRC mainland. I suppose the question to be asked is how serious is their intent... and are they willing to risk a break in diplomatic relations with the West--at the least--and slide down the slippery slope towards a world-conflict?
We can only hope that diplomacy wins the day. I"ve read some fictional accounts of an all-out war between China and the USA, and I agree it would be nothing but ugly for all concerned. In one book I have read, the PRC actually secure a beachhead on the Gulf Coast of the USA. Yes, all-out war... of a conventional nature. Still, a very frightening scenario.

Tim

 

wow smeg ..those japanese phantoms are a lot smaller than i remember them being as a boy watching them land at naha n.a.s. ..i guess it just goes to show you how everything seems really big when you are little...

 

I see another caption competition coming on.....

"Traffic Warden tickets entire midget air display team for parking offences"