Churchill 'Crocodile' tanks and the SS

Hi - no, I don't know that story. Do share it with us!

 

There is a reference to captured (and executed) croc crews in Ludovic Fortin's 'British Tanks in Normandy' and at least one commander is mentioned; possibly Harvey as above.

I can't recall the detail or whether there is a source but can check if it will help?

 

hi. my dad told me he was on r.and r.when they got the word they were going into the bulge . As you know the germans had begun by breaking through wearing yank uniforms and using yank vehicles.He said because of this we didnt know who was who so we changed the passwords without telling the yanks.
The consequences of this are obvious.
The american password was "rubber protective".
It was changed to "french letter".
I wondered what your thoughts were on this.

 

Big Sand

Have just found our Grandads war Diaries, they cover 1994 - 1945 landed on the beaches on 16.07.1944 St Croix Sur mere, we also have pictures of him at Belsen first mention in the diary is 21/22 April 1945 & then 22 - 27 May 1945.


Still trying to understand his hand writing, seems was involved in fierce fighting at Hill 112 Casino Ridge Maltot between 20 July 3 August 1994

not 100% sure which regiment he belonged to but did drive a croc tank

 

Good Morning.
Have just joined and posted a message in the new member forum!

My Grandfather served with 8 Troop, B Squadron 141 RAC (The Buffs).
He was a regular having served with an Armoured Car Company in India before the war.

I have lots of information about his regiment.

He was wounded on 27/6/44 in Normandy during the first action by that squadron, at 'Operation Mitten' at the Chateau de la Londe.

Look forward to hearing from members - Grahame

 

Hi, not too sure how old this post is but i have the same original book from my Grandad, he served with the 1st fife and Forfars as a wireless operator in a croc, i have some items from him which include a pair of small green goggles which i assume are anti glare but no one has ever confirmed it. got some swastika patches and money.

the map that is in the back of the book in coilour and shows the 3 squadrons leaving the UK and ultimate destination i also have the orginal, its qyuite a big map and need to get it framed, i always wonder if he was given it after the war by the regiment?

regards


nick

 

There is a 12.SS Panzergrenadier NCO who was awarded the Knight's cross posthumously for engaging Sherman Crocodiles with Panzerfausts.

 

My father, Stephen Riches was also a Croc driver in B squadron of the 141 RAC (The Buffs) and served in the Normandy campaign and the clearing of the channel ports and later in Holland. He is still alive and whereas more recent events he finds difficult to recall, his memories of WWII are still strong but not always perfect. Regarding the stories of Croc crews being shot if captured he has told me that this definitely did happen on at least one occasion, I belive the incident described in Andrew Wilson's book, but I am not sure it was routine action. I don't recall him talking about crews being captured very often. I will try to press him on this point when I see him later this week.

He and I have visited Normandy and the various sites inc various cemetaries where comrades are buried. A humbling experience. He has a worn copy of a book written by Andrew Wilson, a lieutenant in the regiment, called Flame Thrower. I don't think its still in print.

I am currently doing the family history thing and peversely it's been easier to find out about more distant ancestors than most recent ones. If anybody knows of any more details of the history of B Squadron, or can point me in the right direction I would be grateful. Any direct questions that I could ask my father on anyones behalf, let me know and I will try to ask him.

​

 

I'm not sure what the source is for the casualty figures shown here. My father who was in 141 RAC C squadron during the North Europe campaign from Normandy to Berlin recalls a far higher figure for men killed. He still has the order of service for a memorial for the dead that lists 63 dead in 141st RAC. I can't understand such a discrepency. Any ideas why?

 

This info is taken from the History of 79th Armoured Division.

As I mentioned in another post I have the War Diaries of this unit. If they would be of interest to you, drop me a line.

Geoff's Search engine shows 71 dead from 141 RAC.

 

I have the same book and have read this. Its also been confirmed to me by my father who was a Croc driver in C squadron at the time and is still alive.

Also there is a record of this casualty on the CWGC site. It records Lt Norman Edward HARVEY of 141st RAC (7th bn The Buffs Royal East Kent Regiment) service no. 258150 died 26/6/1944 aged 31. His name is inscribed on the Bayeux War memorial, panel 10 Column 3.

So I am sure the story is true. My father recalls the crew were shot by soldiers of the 12th SS (Jugend - Hitler Youth) Division.

 

Probably the most scariest yank in ww2.

 

Eh?

 

Oops I mean tank

 

I have heard something about that the if the germans captured an enemy with a Shotgun or a Flamethrower, they would shoot them right away, anyone heard anything about that?

 

Considering the Germans carried flamethrowers themselves, how does that work?

Shotgun? Who carried a shotgun outside of arcade games? And why?

 

I think it was that if an american soldier was using a shotgun, then taken prisoner, they would execute him, im not sure, but i think i have also hear something like that, but only with flamethrowers instead of shotguns(I think the allies executed the enemies having one in the ETOW).

 

I don't mean to get off topic but have the russains ever used flamethrowes?

 

Hi all, newbie here!

I have some further information on Harvey and his crew taken from 'The History of 'A' Squadron 141st Regt. R.A.C (The Buffs)'. This volume has no named author, but was published and distributed from Fife in 1946 by the one time CO Major George Storrar.

Lt Norman Harvey was No.4 Troop leader, A Squadron, and together with No.5 Troop were fighting under the command of Capt. Strachan in the St. Mauvieux area. On 27th June...

'..Lieut. Harvey had gone right into a courtyard to burn out some very stubborn enemy when his tracks came off, rendering the tank almost helpless. The crew were forced by the enemy to evacuate the tank and were taken prisoners, no indication of their existence becoming available until Trooper Pepper escaped to our lines about ten months later; the other four members of the crew, Lieut. Norman Harvey, Corporal Robert Hodges, L/Corporal Cyril Golding, and Trooper Harold Peck were never heard of again, and are now presumed killed. It appears that all five were marched back to a headquarters for interrogation and separated there never to see each other again.'

Cheers,
Jon.

 

Yes, I recall that they used flamethrower traps in Kursk for example....Nasty!

ROKS-2 (ranzewuj ognemjot KS-2)

Backpack Flamethrowers

Soviet ROKS-2 Flamethrower