Definition of "The Great Patriotic War"

Not just that but I beleive he also used the church to help rally support.

 

According to my limited knowledge they use a suffix "1941-1945" as a measure of disambiguation: a similar term "Patriotic War of 1812" is used to denote a war against French invasion of Russia.

 

You're right, they distinguish them in context by stating the years

As for the thread I find Otto's point interesting, how Stalin put ideology second to necessity with regard to the "patriotism" deal - and how badly Hitler employed it. I am still stunned at how badly Hitler treated those who even hailed the German forces as liberators, as was the case for a lot of places - Gunny mentioned the two biggest ones, Ukraine and the Baltic States - but additionally the smaller states with whom Germany was Allied - prime example of Hungary being flat-out invaded in 1944.

 

On that regard I think we should look National Socialist ideology and its twisted implementation to real world. Hitler and his clique , main Nazi leaders of Reich did not value much about Russian fighting capability in initial years of war (1939-1941 era I am talking abut ) For Hitler Slavs were as a race sub human lacking good qualities to fight and survive. They were not really worth to live except to be serfs as they had been throughout the history for herrenvolk (Germanic race ) in managable numbers. They did not expect too much resistance especially under (from their narrow ideological perpective ) so called evil and inefficient Jewish-Bolshevik regime Russians were serving under. Hitler's "One kick to door and whole rotten building would collapse" quote was as well as a hopeful expression as a sincere belief. Both Hitler and German High Command were prepared just for a brief campaign until 1941 winter and quick victory nothing beyond that. And it is understandable they did not make any preperations to win locals according to their racial ideological beliefs. They saw no need to initially. After it became clear Red Army was resisting and fighting much better and fiercely than expected they did not know what to do except to exploit their winnings ruthlessly. Russian numbers their production capabilities came quite a shock to German generals and Hitler who were expecting another quick and victorious Tannanberg Campaign (1914) or Riga Campaign (1917) or Western Campaign (1940)-France had the best army in Europe and had best soldiers to resist Wehrmact from German perspective as they did in Great War yet they folded down and surrendered in 1940 in six weeks. After that German High Command and ideological leaders reasoned what chance sub human Russian masses and corrupt Bolshevik ideology had against mighty Wehrmacht ? Even French best in fighting business could hold against them.

After initial invasion period of Barbarossa and Nazi terror became general rule throughout occupied Ukranie and Belarussia ands partisan counter partisan warfare started everything was over for Germans to win locals. First they were not interested at all confident for a quick and victorious campaign second they were too late , half hearted , cynical and already started a cycle of mass violance in occupied territories they couldn't control.

 

Don't think the plan was to win them over Lou.

 

The German policy of lebensraum was an echo of America's manifest destiny. The US also had no use for the "subhuman" Indians and Mexicans that lived on the land. They just wanted them dead or gone whereas the Germans wanted to use the Slavs as slave labor. Weirdly serendipitous. I think, besides the time frame in which it happened, the reason the world was so pissed at Hitler was that he was doing it to white people. Slaughtering indigenous people for their resources was sop since forever. The colonial powers only really did it to non white populations. Like in the revolution the Brits did not consider the colonists their equals but they did not want to exterminate, they just wanted to use them.

 

I have a somewhat different view of this. The term "Mother Russia" is not unlike "The Fatherland" A deep feeling people have for their country, their home land. Anyone invading it is generally the enemy, of course there are always a few welcoming the intruders for reasons of their own, but the vast majority may well put aside internal divisions to face the foe. Great internal strife often falls to outside invasion. Republicans and Democrats were pretty united December 8, 1941. ! ( I can only hope no one sees this sentence as more than a wrapped sense of humor !) Would Stalin and the Party capitalize on this? I think so. To call it "The Great Patriotic War" is certainly a unifying element. Few oppose patriotism in the face of invasion. The Knesset is a pretty hostile place until Israel is invaded. To be a "Hero of the Soviet Union" seems to have been considered an honor by many .

The Soviet Union had and Russia has thousands of monuments to the Great Patriotic War, I see them as the Soviets trying to establish a collective feeling for all to share, all suffered, all bled. That this had devious planning behind it and more terrible plans were yet to come and certainly may have been hidden in the propaganda of the Party. But I think many ordinary Russian people truly believed that helped win the Great Patriotic war. In fact they did. A lot of movies of proud Russian soldiers still show up. Trotsky may have meant it, Stalin used it.

Of course many in the Soviet Union welcomed the German Army and the USSR was a very diverse place but in the end many Russians seem very proud of what they accomplished......at least for a while.

I just happen to think many Russians were apolitical at heart but loved their country.

 

That's certainly debateable. I suppose if you restrict yourself to a narrow enough period of time you might be able to make something of a case for it. It may also depend on how you define "non white".

Possibly true but there were lots of non Russians in the USSR and a goodly number were not happy there.

 

Indeed, I think of all the countries such as Latvia, Estonia, etc, huge portions of Georgia and Ukraine that were "absorbed" that were not pleased to be part of the USSR but my point was the idea of "The great Patriotic War' seems a post war attempt to establish a collective "we fought and won together idea" but I also believe in the heart of Russia true patriotism was certainly there. all the way back to Alexander Nevsky. I grew up in rural Alabama prior to TV. Tolstoy and Pasternak were on out book shelf and often read and Borodin,, Rimsky- Korsakov , and Mussorgsky were listened to over and over. In spite of the Tsars and the Soviets I will die believing "Mother Russia " exist and has a heart. Even Putin cannot kill that . LOL

Funny what teens use to do in rural Alabama. !

 

As far as that goes I suspect that at least in part it was an attmept to establish that collective spirit during the war. An endeavor the Germans lent great aid to.