Democracy - a good system?

Perhaps here is a small historic fact that you might find interesting.

In every war the Americans ever participated in, they did so to secure their foreign market. That's all they ever go to war for, that's what the Truman doctrine was there for. That is their purpose in all foreign policy.

 

Roel, would you kindly explain to me how the Amercian Civil War was fought to "secure their foreign market"? Or the War of 1812? I would also like to remind you that we entered WW2 because Japan was rude enough to attack us. And we wound up fighting in Europe because Hitler decided to declare war on us. If we wanted to "secure our foreign market", we would have given Japan everything she wanted to continue her war of aggression in China, for there was a seller's market if ever there was one! Where on Earth did you ever get such a notion?

 

Yes, it should read 'intervention war'. Of course a Civil or a defensive war doesn't count as such, because they have only to do with self-preservation, but all the other wars...

Of course you were brought into the war by Japan and Germany, but Germany couldn't hurt you; you could've just left her alone. There were very good economic reasons why you decided to invade Europe.

Please note that I am not trying to discard all US wars as selfish greedy business. I am indeed thankful that they came. It's just a motive, none of the veterans could ever help that, they just came ad did their job which I owe them for.

 

To be honest Roel, you could very easily see almost every war ever waged by anyone as a purely economic venture.

Britain & Holland (for example) had several wars (generally kept to naval engagements) which were basically sparked off by trading rights.

 

Of course, but this wasn't for market; it was about the right to 'steal' goods from the Indies and sell them here.

By the way, Holland got rich off its colonies so we have had our fair share of imperialism in our history. :-?

 

So do all western european countries.

 

Oh yes - just about every country ever has at one point or another got rich at somebody else's expense.
Imperialism ain't just a Western trait!

See the Aztecs & Incas.
The Mongol hordes.
China.
Japan.
The Zulu nation.
etc etc.

We just have the recorded history which shows us up so much.

 

I meant western european states all had colonies, but of course you can be imperialist without having colonies.

 

Japan had Korea as a colony.

Interesting - does 'Empire' and 'colony' equate?

Empires tend to be conquered peoples who are (eventually) integrated into the overlord's society (see Rome).

Colonies tend to be perminently subordinate.

So, could some 'Empires' be termed more 'colonies'

(and vice versa, I assume!)

Like the Aztec Empire...

 

Definately.

Remember that british and french colonies wewre called "Colonial Empire".
The idea of empire and colonies are indeed very close.Both mean that some nation takes the control of other nations that are historically, culturally, mentally very different.It's the exact opposite of the nation state.

A country that has colonies/empire, uses the controled territories to improve it's own situation militarily, economically, politically, culturally....
This of course often ends up in exploiting, but sometimes, the colonies also profit from it.

The Aztecs for example conquered many rival tribes/cities, and all those had to send merchandises and troops to the Atztecs.This could be dedscribed as a sort of colonialism.

Another example is the Soviet Union/Russia which also had colonies:Ukraine, Kazhaqkstan, Armenia....

 

Taking a different direction -

A rant about British elections.

Yesterday was the day for electing our MEPs (Members of the European Parliament). We have (quite unusually) received a campaign leaflet from every party in the election for my area. I decided to be a good & informed voter and read through these leaflets, to see whose policies I most agreed with.

Here is a summary of what the leaflets contained:

Liberal Democrats - the Conservatives are rubbish. Only a vote for us will keep Labour out.

Labour - we have done this last year (4 items - one of which I know was a failure). Only a vote for us will keep the Conservatives out.

Conservatives - We want nothing to do with Europe. Labour are bad.

Green Party - Eat Organic Food!

Pro-Life Party - abortion is wrong. Well, fair point (no debates please!), but surely there is more to being an MEP than that?

Several 'Britain first' parties - had 2 or 3 flyers liberally covered with the George Cross, proclaming 'England for the English' and similar. Not especially racist, more anti-Europe.

So whom should I vote for?

the people who tell me what they've done?
the people who tell me everyone else is bad?
the people who tell me what they will do, but not why?
the people who tell me to eat organic food?
the people who tell me not to abort my unborn baby?
the people who refuse to take any stance beyond 'England for the English'
(whether you agree with them or not, I'd hate to have such narrow-minded individuals in power)

And politicians wonder why the number of people voting is going down...

All I want is for a politician to say:

"This is what I stand for, because of this, that, and the other."

Is that so hard?

Plus, what is possibly worse, despite reading all I could find, I still have no real idea of what an MEP does.

 

An MEP quite simply signs on for a days work goes home and claims his/her salary and the equivalent in expenses. :kill:

 

Well, that is what the various parties claimed about each other!
(their own members, of course, were 'boycotting unfair Euro-centric decisions' or something similar)
:angry:

 

Hmph. And here I thought American politics were bad... :roll:

 

You ain't seen nothing yet... You ain't been around!

The funny thing about the European Union is that everyone emphasizes its importance but so very few people actually know what the Union does that voting rates are lower than half of the potential amount. I for one have no idea what the chosen party will do out there, and what I'll be noticing of it.

Ricky, you should have been to Spain last week. They really take it seriously there... ahem. Nothing but faces and empty slogans - but oh the quantity! Dozens every street!

 

Just what *does* the EU do? I've been kinda curious about that myself.

 

It supports french agriculture with hundreds of millions of euros every year.

 

Which, I have heard our anti-Euro politicians argue, come mostly from the UK...

 

Wrong! :angry: It all comes from the Netherlands.

The European Union tries to keep the nations in it on a more common line of policy, concerning all branches of economy and trade. Most of its effort goes into agriculture, however, because in large regions of Europe this requires much to be brought up to par with the more modern (rich) European countries. Whatever else it does, don't ask me.

 

The common agricultre minister is I believe a Frenchman/woman, hence the common agricultral policy is bias towards the smaller French and German farmers.