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Don't Mess With Southern Girls

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by Slipdigit, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    [​IMG] Originally Posted by muscogeemike [​IMG]
    Yet, judging from the people using the ranges I mentioned, many of you would surely like to have them. And if guns are not part of your culture why so many wars using them?



    Guys, please NO politics or I'd have to put this in the stump.
     
  2. luketdrifter

    luketdrifter Ace

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    If any thread that mentions war is going to be threatened with a move to the Stump, shouldn't the entire board be moved there?
     
  3. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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  4. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    There is a gun show in the area tomorrow.

    My wife is wanting a new handgun, so I will go see what is there. Since her injury in 2011, she is unable to handle a larger caliber weapon. I doubt that she would be able to hold on to anything .32 cal or larger and actually fire it with a necessary degree of safety or accuracy. So, I am looking to get her something small that she can carry and use with the understanding that if you get enough lead downrange, the perp will eventually stop.

    Does anyone have any comments on a .22 LR pistol vs a .25 cal? I've never fired a .25 cal handgun so I cannot gauge the recoil at all. How does it compare with a .22 cal handgun that fires long rifle or magnum? It will most likely have to be a revolver, as I doubt she has the hand strength to slide a semi-auto. I also understand that. 25 cal ammunition is harder to find, so that is also a consideration.

    Before you argue the merits of a larger weapon, I agree, but she simply is not physically able to handle a higher-powered weapon with either hand at present.
     
  5. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    Hey Jeff, as you know I bought the wife two guns. The new Walther PK380 and the P22. They are similar in size with the 380 just slighty larger. They are very light and fit my wife's hands with no problem. My wife is average height (5'4"). I know they do make critical defense for the 22 but the 380 obviously a better option if she can hold it. The 22 is for range practice since the cost of ammo is definitely better priced.

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  6. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    It is not the size of the weapon, Ike, that is the issue. Following her injury in 2011, she is unable to grip things as firmly in her hands as should be able to. Without getting into the details of her issue, she cannot hold and fire weapons that have much of a recoil at all, especially with her right hand, which is her dominant one as she has a noticeably weakend grip, among some other issues. Our hope is to get her to using a smaller weapon with the expectation that over time she can recover some of the motor skills she is presently lacking and return to using a weapon more suitable to her needs. In the meantime, while she might have a larger caliber weapon available, she unable to wield it, as it is very likely that she could drop it upon firing it. To us, a weapon that she cannot fully control is more of a danger than we are willing to accept.

    My knowledge of the recoil effects of a .25 are so parsimonious that I cannot make a judgement as to whether or not she can use it. If it is a better weapon and one that she can handle, we will look at it for the time being with an eye to progressing back to what she can later handle on that has more acceptable stopping power. Otherwise, we will have to start with the .22 and work upward over time.

    I rate a .22 as the same as shooting a good pellet pistol, as far as kick (none) and difficulty to control (very easy) are to, say, a child. Years ago, my then ten year old daughter could fire a .38 revolver quite easily and keep it on target, but it was not a weapon she particularly liked to fire as it had substantial kick to her. Right now, I need something closer to the recoil of a pellet gun for my wife.
     
  7. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    Got it. What about using lower load ammo? Revolvers do have a bigger kick than their Semi-Auto cousins. Good luck.
     
  8. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

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    Have you considered having some work done on a higher caliber handgun? A gunsmith can install a smoother trigger and probably a lighter recoil spring for the slide, those should help make operation of the handgun easier for her. Recoil is best managed by the weight of the barrel, from what I've experienced, but would the same gunsmith adding vent ports to the end of the barrel significantly impact the power of, say, a 9mm? I'm not sure on that one, you might ask around. Also, I've read about a gun oil that, from what the reviewer (former FFL gun-shop owner, IPSC competitor, and general gun guru Larry Correia) had to say, is the next best thing to eliminating friction in your handgun's action completely. Its called Slipstream. I would love to try some of it myself!

    All that being said, my wife and I have a Walther P22 in our possession, and its probably one of the easiest guns to operate. A .22 round, while light and cheap and good for plinking at varmints, can still be deadly when placed in the right spot, and most of the two-legged variety will download in their britches at the mere sight of a firearm pointed in their direction. I don't own a revolver, and have only shot one once, so I can't speak from personal experience about the recoil, but the one I did shoot (and everything else I've read about them) is that unless you get a larger revolver with a longer barrel, recoil is the flip-side to the "easy to use" coin. I'd honestly recommend a day at the local range renting and trying out various revolvers and semi-autos.
     
  9. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    I've never shot a .25ACP handgun (its one of two calibers prohibited here for no apparent reason), but if you're looking at this for defense I would take a centerfire round over a rimfire round any day. From experience, for every 1 centerfire pistol round that's a dud, there are at least 10 or 15 rimfire duds. The reliability gets better as you buy the more expensive rounds (my 1911 .22LR barrel and slide conversion kit needs high-power rounds to cycle properly), but they still aren't nearly as reliable as centerfire.

    There isn't much change in kinetic energy between .25ACP and .22LR, so I'd assume the recoil is about the same. The only thing is that most .25ACP guns I've seen have shorter barrels than .22s -- this would translate into more "kick", and it might be more difficult to hold onto the common smaller grips.

    There are two types of recoil: 'physical recoil' (what physics dictates, and basically depends only on calibre, powder and bullet weight) and 'felt recoil' (what you feel when you shoot the gun). As for revolvers, almost every revolver I've shot has more 'felt recoil' than a semi-auto pistol. The further away the barrel is from your hand, the more 'felt recoil' you will feel. Most semi-autos have the barrel about an inch or less above your hand, while for revolvers the barrel tends to be much higher. This 'felt recoil' works on the same principle as a lever -- if you want to lift something, is it better to apply a force on the lever 1 inch away from the object, or 10 inches away from the object?
     
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  10. rprice

    rprice Member

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    I second Alan's nomination of the .25 ACP vs the .22LR, though either would be only slightly better than a sharp stick. For ammo, I recommend FMJ ("ball") over hollow point mainly because the .25 does not have enough energy for an HP to both penetrate AND expand, expecially if the target is wearing heavy clothing. Even more important than the ammo is shot placement, so practice, practice, practice...
     
  11. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Thanks for the comments about the .25 cal. I realize that it is not optimal, but she has to use what she can handle at the present.

    On an aside. I went to a local gun show. I got there about 0930 (it opened at 0900) and the line to get in was about 50 yds long, so I went to the hardware stores to estimate the cost of something that I am going to build. I went back around 1100, figuring the line would have thinned some. Nope. It was a hundred yards long this time. I'm not talking about a single file line, either, it is three or four across, since friends are bunched up, talking to each other in the line.

    I came on home because I did not want to stand in line for an hour or more.
     
  12. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    What if you try getting there at 8.45 next time, you might get in at 9.45-10.00 am
     
  13. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    If I were you I'd call around and find somebody that has a locked breech .380, or a range that rents them so your wife can try one out. There's a tremendous difference between the traditional blowback .380 that smacks your hand like a steel rod, and the locked breech .380 that spreads out the recoil. The Sig P238 is locked breech. Colt is bringing back their Mustang .380 line which is also locked breech. I think both companies offer these in both steel and aluminum and you'd want the steel version.

    The Colt .380 Government (locked breech) would be the best of the best for your purposes. It's larger than the Mustang or P238, though still very concealable. They stopped making these in 1997 but there are plenty around and the recoil (because it's slightly heavier) is negligible.

    If you can find one of these pistols for your wife to shoot, I think she'll be pleasantly surprised.
     
  14. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

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    Heh....I can't remember the source (Col. Jeff Cooper?), but I recall someone talking to prospective CIA agents during the Cold War. The conversation went something like:

    "We don't recommend you carry a gun. Because if you carry a gun, you're going to want to carry something small. If you want to carry something small, you're going to want to carry a .225. If you carry a .225, one day you're going to want to use it. And if you end up shooting someone....and he finds out about it, he's going to be really angry."
     
  15. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Prolly will. Sleep was the premium this morning. It had been a long week.

    Thanks. I'll see what I can do about trying that/
     

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