Excellent article about a Vietnam Vet and going to war.

each case is different in it's effects Steve am working with 1/2 dozen Afghan/Iraq service vets from different branches.

I think of my Dad now deceased a wreck later in life ww 2 service in the Navy not talked about ever, my father in law now 91 served aboard a tin-can hit twice during Japanese suicide attacks, severe dementia and hate syndrome a frail body of once a proud man everything became internalized re : his child hodd trauma of severly beaten and sexually abused by his father and uncle. My Dads dad a ww1 vet later undercover in Latvia during ww 2 avoided the W-ss and Wehrmacht seeing the civil population brutalized daily, back home one of the first American missionaries to the Belgian Congo and the last two months of his proud life in a rest care facility beating on the big guys as aides and screaming at them "I'm going to kill you all." his childhood was wrapped up in deep seated anger, fear and hatred for his parents. my own bro in law nearly killed in Vietnam by a delayed time fuzed bomb, still kicks out shrapnel almost on a monthly basis from his hell hole time in 1969 as a navy corpmen. he still thinks living on that hosptial ship and in the Bremerton hospital for nearly a year that he has dealt with his PTSD until recently, and yeah you guessed it physically and emotional and sexually abused as a child. not even going to tell you about what I've done and still am doing but my childhood hasn't been one of normalcy.

damn I should write a book and maybe I will, crazy serving in Israel making flash point night raids behind lines and ordered to kill everything in sight........... sorry gents but my bitterness is really starting to come to the service. anything I read with a Nam title sends me overboard, again a process I am dealing with if only and again if only we had those knowledgeable to implement materials for those suffering back in the 40', 50's 60's and 70's. Tommy said the Marines are trying, but it is still not enough. you all have to start somewhere with whom you are with we must all explore the limitless possibilities, enial is expected.

 

Every single person reacts very different to such situations. Take my Grandpa at the FJ´s, he had never any problem after the war. My other Grandpa served as a Captain with the 11th Tank divison at Russia he became heavy troubles with his stomache, but no one could ever find anything. It started in 1943 and ended as he died at the age of 82. I made such experiences with persons at Somalia. There was one guy who was a FJ and he was brought to us for getting him back to his hometown. He acted somewhat strange and we had an eye on him. In the evening at the NCO´s canteen he went going mad and attacked the others with a knive so they called us to arrest him. As we arrived he was completely weird and acted like he had to fight against enemies. I ordered him to stop and lay on the ground, he attacked me and i held him my pistol on his head and asked him for his opinion who would be faster. He stopped and we arrested him and brought him into a prison cell. He ruined the cell and started crying for his Mum like a baby. He was a part of a unit which had no heavy fighting. The others had no problem but he had, why? No one can tell what war is doing to us. And i think that it is often easier to say "this is PTSD "or "this is that" for the reason that they haven´t a idea what really happens to the psyche of a human.

 

let me personally add gents that for Nam when we got broadcasted over some volunteer others were brought over with special trained skills, others the frickin draft, we find this mind play ih so many vets is taht the war if you will was undeclared and am going to also tell you whther you beleive me or not but the troops in Nam with the worst case scenarios are not battle line veterans but those serving in the rear. Ullrich your last sentance is more important than you realize.

 

It does seem that we (I am including myself especially) tend to use "PTSD" as a generic term, which it is not. I would refer back to post #22 by harolds who makes that point well, I think. Erich, I completely agree with you that not enough has been done to help our servicemen and servicewomen who are struggling regardless of what the root cause is. I would hope we can all agree on that.

I think it also should be mentioned that there are private non-profit organizations that are also trying to help. Supporting one or more of them is a way we can do something to help out our veterans. I will refrain from posting any specific organizations as I don't want to appear to be favoring some over others. They aren't difficult to find, so each can make their own decision.

 

the experieced ones are out there, but honesty many times is not valued if I am making myself understood. we have enough experiece right here on this board TD wonder if anyone has ever thought about volunteering to listen to a vet and allow them to tell their story and tear up. the military needs to revamp and man up for those that are still living in their own private hell, I have more horror stories but will not share any more as some run too deep............just wish that some of us would not be in the forgotten closet due to non supportation of our govt due to the lies and excuses of too many years. still a nutty world we live in.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, Erich. The military and, by extension, the government should be doing more. However, it's not an either/or situation. I give you great credit for doing what you are doing to help some that need it. I am also in full support of encouraging folks to volunteer as you suggested. So, the government should do more and individual citizens (like us!) should do more. Again, I think we are in agreement.

 

not disagreeing with you at all bro just pointing out an all important fact, the Korean war area vet was forgotten altogether the media for the first time was allowed at the front line in Nam to give a warped impression of what we were doing there as well as Cambodia on a much smaller scale and I will call it as I saw it during the post trauma coming home and melting into society syndrome all we had was military corner 1/2 way house, we sat in circles discussing how we got screwed up mentally after killing those that were deemed as enemy if front line troops. all it was = touchy feely of the 70s' hey Bro I feel you're pain now get the H ** out of here and do something with your life. did anyone follow up no we met monthly to discuss the same old stuff and left with the same hole in our gut as we tried in vain to puke out a life for us.
true TD things have evolved but there needs to be so much more done, the poor kids coming back from the mid-east and Afghan need more than a family to talk with, Families are suffering suicide rates are more than in Nam and the beatings and killing of spouses and children are at an all time high as it is all heart wrenching. what can we say with the govt in hand whomever party cont5ols it, get off yer butts recognize there are internal issues and support the programs albeit private and or govt to get things in hand and help these people.

 

I suggest Erich you have a look at ww2 talks thread on ptsd. We'll agree to disagree.

 

I can only offer an observation because I have never served. I will say that if ever a time comes that we can not openly debate ANY subject on this great forum, then it will die...

One of my favorite films about WW 2 was the beautiful film called "The Best Years Of Our Life". I have watched many times. There is a reason it won 7 Academy Awards in 1946. It was the first to address what we now call PTDS. It was way before it's time and the 3 men involved spoke for the thousands coming home and what they had to live through during WW 2.

 

I can only offer an observation because I have never served.

Steve, you don't have to have served to comment. I have served and never had ptsd in any form I'm aware of but know of those that have.

Enough research and medical evidence exists to explain in detail now just what ptsd is. Some may have their own thoughts on it, however there is medical evidence on just what it is. I would take a look at the ww2 talk thread I quoted. Takes some reading and takes some of its posters almost to the limit, but debate it does and yes you are right debate open and honest. But facts over opinion where medical matters are concerned.

 

urgh I replied on a ptsd thread twice on the talk site and was asked originally to give some of my observations in this case fact(s) from after the first thump in the mideast against Saddam with US troops coming home. I was written privately by two members and was told I was a nut-job, after that I quit viewing altogether. man if we cannot explore knowledge past of what we think we already know then we are doomed...........

 

Many folk were called similar on both sides of the divide on that thread, including Jugs who was much maligned by many there. However he and others stuck to their guns and put the message across. It caused much anguish on that site, as it has the right to do so as it is an emotive subject. However stating that ptsd is inherited from childhood sucpetibility is just not correct.

 

Rather than repeat the ingoble thread and falling out that occured on this subject on ww2 talk, I'll just quote Paethon member on ww2 talk and his unemotive post...It may stop this thread being a repeat of the talk one...I would though suggest anyone should read the talk thread on ptsd. Its bad..but its good. We certainly don't need to repeat that on here. Debate is one thing..Uninformed insulting opinions will be quite another.

Paethons words:

I'm posting this because this is my field, and because this thread is becomming somewhat personal between members and it needn't be. For proffesional reasons this is going to be my last post on the topic in this thread.

PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) is a recognized mental health difficulty that effects a large proportion of the population and as such is a a medical condition. The criteria for this is part of DSM, ICD diagnostic manuals. Billions of dollars every year is spent on the treatment. I won't get into the argument here about how unrecognized it is in the UK compared to the US, its officially recognized in both.

The army, for obvious reasons, is more vulnerable to this then most proffesions. As has already been pointed out however, anyone can suffer from the effects for a veriety of reasons, it does not take a special type of person to suffer from the effects. Symptoms differ from the positive to the negative meaning that the effects are not always apparent (on a personal note, I have noted that aggression at home is highly corrolated with PTSD).

In ww1 the term for PTSD was shell shock, in ww2 it was "bomb happiness" (before shell shock came back into fashion).

Different generations have viewed the disorder differently, leading to different treatment methodologies, and critically different outlooks on those who have the, much maligned and misunderstood disorder. Cowardice is often quoted example, and its well known (as has oft been quoted) how this was viewed in ww1. How much times have changes in the source of plenty of papers, you can search the literature base in most psychiatric journals.

Whilst it is fine to view the disorder in whichever way you want, I suggest that those who want to know more about it should seek informed oppinion from people other then random folk on messageboards and contact the NHS, their local GP or one of the many charities devoted to tackling it.

... otherwise we'll end up with a thread full of people slagging each other off and posting stories about their mate/family members who may or may not have PTSD, aguing with people who frankly should know better; and this gets us nowhere. This is a shame as in many other ways ww2talj is a fine establishment.

This thread started admirably and I commend those associated with and who work with the disorder; I just hope it ends that way.

 

Thanks for sharing that post by Paethon, urqh. That last part it good advice for any forum on any subject, but especially on one where passions can run high.