Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

For Those Interested in Archaeology

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by GRW, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,942
    Likes Received:
    5,923
    Oww.
     
  2. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    21,024
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
  3. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,942
    Likes Received:
    5,923
    The standard C.S.I.* scenario can include such recreations. Ötzi is a famous one, even though he lived between 3350 and 3105 BC. Here he is with the reconstructed items he had with him in that glacier.

    [​IMG]

    *CSI: Crime Scene Investigation - Wikipedia
     
  4. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    10,083
    Likes Received:
    3,386
    Legend.
     
    OpanaPointer likes this.
  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,942
    Likes Received:
    5,923
    Imagine walking from Germany to Italy by going DUE SOUTH.
     
  6. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    21,024
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    "A 4,000-year-old tomb has been rediscovered in Ireland—more than 170 years after it was thought to have been destroyed.
    The tomb is called Altóir na Gréine, which means the “Altar of the Sun” in Irish. In 1838, an English aristocrat named Georgiana Chatterton visited and sketched the site, writing in her travel journal that she’d found “a curious piece of antiquity once an altar, supposed to have been used for offering sacrifices to the sun,” according to Seán Mac an tSíthigh of RTE News, which first reported the story.
    In 1852, however, the antiquarian Richard Hitchcock visited the site and concluded that the tomb had been dismantled, perhaps so that its stones could be reused elsewhere. Since then, researchers assumed that Altóir na Gréine was no more.
    But Billy Mag Fhloinn, an Irish archaeologist and folklorist at Sacred Heart University, wondered if the tomb’s remains still existed.
    “I was just struck by the mystery of this thing being missing—and, in a way, the drama of the location itself along the ridge of that hill,” Mag Fhloinn tells MClatchy's Moira Ritter. “It was something that I just wanted to tie together. I just felt like there’s an unanswered question here.'
    He started building a photogrammetric model using images he’d taken of the site, which is located near his home in southwest Ireland. A few months ago, the researcher spotted a stone that reminded him of Chatterton’s sketch.
    Mag Fhloinn contacted Ireland’s National Monuments Service, which sent in archaeologist Caimin O’Brien. Upon closer inspection, they confirmed they’d located the long-lost Altóir na Gréine.
    Getting there, however, took a bit of creative maneuvering.
    “The way I found it was by climbing over barbed-wire fences, but not everybody wants to do that,” Mag Fhloinn tells Live Science's Tom Metcalfe.
    He adds that only one of the tomb’s ancient stones was still standing, but several others appear to be buried below the soil. He doesn’t expect to find human remains at the site, as the wet soil surrounding the tomb would have likely hastened the erosion of any bones.
    The tomb is located on top of a hill near Ballyferriter, a small village on the Dingle Peninsula. Archaeologists say it’s a wedge tomb, a common burial structure in the region formed by situating large, upright stones in a rectangle and then placing a large capstone on top. This particular example likely dates to between 2500 B.C.E. and 2000 B.C.E."
    Everyone Thought This 4,000-Year-Old Tomb Had Been Destroyed. Then, an Archaeologist Found It | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine
     
    CAC and OpanaPointer like this.
  7. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    9,320
    Likes Received:
    2,623
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,942
    Likes Received:
    5,923
    There's a galaxy in the lower right corner, the white/blue stars. The dark clouds are closer to us by a few thousand light years. The upper left is dark because it's not backlit. Same type of clouds all the way across the picture, some are just lit up from behind.
     
    CAC likes this.
  9. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    21,024
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    Just noticed this thread's now been running 15 years.
    "The famous Herculaneum scroll, charred papyrus found buried by the Mount Vesuvius eruption in 79AD, has been deciphered by artificial intelligence.
    The feat was achieved by students in the Vesuvius challenge, which used algorithms to scan the artifact that would otherwise had been destroyed if unraveled by human hands.
    The winning team read more than 2,000 'never-before-seen' texts that discussed sources of pleasure, such as music, the taste of capers and the color purple.
    The three students, from Egypt, Switzerland and the US, share a $700,000 grand prize for uncovering hundreds of words across more than 15 columns of text, corresponding to around five percent of an entire scroll.
    The Vesuvius Challenge was launched in March 2023 by Brent Seales, a computer scientist at the University of Kentucky, and Silicon Valley backers.
    At the time, Seales released thousands of 3D images of two rolled-up scrolls, as well as an AI program that had been trained to read letters in the marks left by ink.
    Shortly after, Luke Farritor from Nebraska and Youssef Nader from Egypt independently revealed the same word hidden within the heart of the sealed manuscript - 'πορφύραc' - meaning purple dye or clothes of purple.
    And the pair shared a $40,000 prize."
    First passages of Herculaneum scroll are DECIPHERED by AI: Students use program to read more than 2,000 words on charred papyrus buried by Mount Vesuvius eruption in 79AD | Daily Mail Online
     
    OpanaPointer likes this.
  10. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    10,083
    Likes Received:
    3,386
  11. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    21,024
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    Yep, nothing new under the Sun.
    "Hundreds of human remains from one burial site hint at a prolonged conflict between Stone Age people, long before the formation of powerful states.
    Stone Age people were fighting small-scale wars in Europe over 5000 years ago, earlier than thought. The conflicts took place long before powerful states formed in the region.
    The evidence comes from a re-analysis of hundreds of human remains found at a burial site in northern Spain. The bones are predominantly male and many have evidence of injuries from stabbing and blunt-force trauma – suggesting they belonged to a warrior class.
    “It’s too large to be conflict within a community,” says Rick Schulting at the University of Oxford. The sheer scale of the conflict points to early warfare, rather than just interpersonal conflicts or skirmishes, he says.
    The site in question is San Juan ante Portam Latinam, a rock shelter in a valley in northern Spain. It was found by accident in 1985 when a bulldozer uncovered human remains while widening a track. Radiocarbon dating of the bones suggests they were laid down between 3380 and 3000 BC, during the European Neolithic period.
    San Juan ante Portam Latinam is about 20 square metres in area. In that small space, researchers found densely packed human bones. They include 90 complete skeletons, over 200 partial skeletons and thousands of seemingly isolated bones.. There were also many stone weapons, including blades, arrowheads and axes. Many of the bones showed signs of injuries, and because they were all dumped together, the site was initially interpreted as the remains of a massacre.
    Schulting and his colleagues have systematically re-analysed the remains. They say San Juan ante Portam Latinam probably doesn’t represent a single massacre, but rather evidence of sustained conflict that was mostly conducted by young males – in other words, warfare."
    Earliest known war in Europe was a Stone Age conflict 5000 years ago | New Scientist
    And here's the other paper that's mentioned-
    Conflict, violence, and warfare among early farmers in Northwestern Europe | PNAS
     
  12. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    10,083
    Likes Received:
    3,386
    Probably played AFL…
     
  13. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    21,024
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    And lost, by the looks of it! :eek:
     
  14. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,942
    Likes Received:
    5,923
    There was a woman involved.
     
  15. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    10,083
    Likes Received:
    3,386
    There always is…Grumble grumble…The moment man makes a passable Fembot…Its the death knell for real women…There I said it.
     
    OpanaPointer likes this.
  16. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    21,024
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    One down, one to go.
    "Nearly 50 years ago, archaeologists made an awesome discovery when excavating the ancient town of Vergina in northern Greece.
    They found three royal tombs containing remains of the family of Alexander the Great, dating back to the 4th century BC.
    At the time, they were deemed to be the great warrior's father, son and elder half brother.
    But according to scientists, the father and the half brother have been caught up in a case of mistaken identity that has lasted since.
    In a new study, the experts now 'conclusively' reveal that the skeleton long identified as belonging to the half brother is in fact the father, and vice versa.
    Unfortunately, the resting place of Alexander the Great himself remains a mystery.
    The new study was led by Antonios Bartsiokas, professor of anthropology at the Democritus University of Thrace in Greece."
    Alexander the Great's FATHER is found: Ancient Greek tomb discovered in 1977 is confirmed to contain the remains of King Philip II | Daily Mail Online
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,942
    Likes Received:
    5,923
    For those REALLY interested in Archaeology I suggest looking under my bed. :oops:
     
  18. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    9,320
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    You never know sometimes what you don't know.

    upload_2024-2-22_9-9-12.png

    (CNN) — A 280 million-year-old fossil thought to be a well-preserved specimen of an ancient reptile is largely a forgery, according to new research.

    The fossil, initially discovered in the Italian Alps in 1931, has the scientific name Tridentinosaurus antiquus. Scientists thought the dark, deep outline of the lizardlike body encased in rock was skin and soft tissue, and they considered the fossil to be a puzzle piece for understanding early reptile evolution.

    The fossil appeared in book and article citations over the decades, but no one ever studied it in detail. Housed in the collections at the University of Padua’s Museum of Nature and Humankind in Italy, the relic raised many questions about the exact nature of the creature it was in life when additional, similar specimens couldn’t be found.


    A new, detailed analysis has revealed that the dark color of the fossil isn’t preserved genetic material — it’s just black paint covering a couple of bones and carved rock. The researchers behind the study reported their findings Thursday in the journal Paleontology.

    “The body outline of this fossil specimen has the same colour of genuine fossilised soft tissues of plants and also animals,” said lead study author Dr. Valentina Rossi, postdoctoral researcher in paleobiology at University College Cork in Ireland, in an email. “So, without the use of diagnostic techniques, it was impossible to identify the dark-colored material properly.”


    The revelation highlights the fresh knowledge that could be reaped from reexamining old and previously studied fossil specimens in museum collections using the latest technological methods.



    Unveiling a forgery


    Reptiles first appeared between the Carboniferous and Permian eras, about 310 million to 320 million years ago. But understanding the evolution of these scaly vertebrates depends on what paleontologists unearth in the fossil record, and the diversity of the earliest reptilian animals is still a knowledge gap researchers are trying to fill.


    Even rarer among ancient finds are fossils that contain soft tissue, which has the potential to harbor crucial biological information like DNA.

    When the specimen was discovered, researchers thought the fossil might provide a rare glimpse into reptilian evolution.

    “The fossil was believed to be unique because there were no other examples from the same geographical area and geological period of that preservation in a fossil vertebrate at the time,” Rossi said.

    But the color of the supposed skin was similar to what had been observed in fossil plants found in similar rocks, Rossi said.

    There were oddities about the find, such as a general lack of visible bones, including the skull bones, despite the fact that the body didn’t appear completely flat. So the initial assessment was that the specimen was essentially a mummy of an ancient reptile.

    “A plausible explanation was that the bones were hidden below the layer of skin and thus not visible,” Rossi said. “There are few examples of dinosaurs mummies, where pretty much like human mummies, the bones are still wrapped inside the skin which is preserved in 3D.”

    Intrigued by the growing uncertainty surrounding the fossil, Rossi and her colleagues began their study in 2021 by examining it with ultraviolet photography. The analysis revealed that the specimen was covered in a thick coating, Rossi said.

    “Coating fossils with varnish is an ancient method of preservation because, in the past, there were no other suitable methods to protect fossils from natural decay,” said study coauthor Mariagabriella Fornasiero, curator of paleontology at the Museum of Nature and Humankind, in a statement.


    Hoping to find biological information about the fossil beneath the coating, the team used powerful microscopes to analyze the samples of the remains across different wavelengths of light.

    Instead, the researchers determined that the body outline was carved in the rock and painted with “animal charcoal,” a commercial pigment used about 100 years ago that was made by burning animal bones. The carving also explained why the specimen appeared to retain such a lifelike shape rather than appearing flatter like a genuine fossil.

    “The answer to all our questions was right in front of us. We had to study this fossil specimen in detail to reveal its secrets — even those that perhaps we did not want to know,” Rossi said.

    The result was unexpected, but it explains why the fossil baffled researchers for decades. The latest research confirms it “is not the oldest mummy in the world,” said study coauthor Evelyn Kustatscher, curator of paleontology at the South Tyrol Nature Museum in Bolzano, Italy, and coordinator of the research project, in a statement.



    Old secrets and new questions


    Intriguingly, there are actual bones within the fossil. The hind limbs, although in poor condition, are real, and there are also traces of osteoderms, or scalelike structures. Now, the researchers are trying to determine the exact age of the bones and what animal they belonged to. The team is also studying the rock, which may also preserve insightful details from 280 million years ago.

    It’s not the first time a fossil forgery has been uncovered, but Rossi said this particular style of forgery is unusual.

    “The only fossil that I am aware of that was painted over rock is a fossilised crayfish which was made to look like a giant spider,” Rossi said. “In this particular case, however, the type of paint wasn’t identified, but I bet is a carbon-based one similar to what we found on our fossil.”

    Given the lack of records to accompany the fossil, including a description of what exactly was found in 1931, Rossi and her team can’t be entirely sure that the forgery was done on purpose.

    “We believe that, since some of the bones are visible, someone tried to expose more of the skeleton, by excavating more or less where someone would expect to find the rest of the animal,” Rossi said. “The lack of proper tools for preparing the hard rock did not help and the application of the paint in the end was perhaps a way to embellish the final work. Unfortunately, whether all of this was intentional or not, it did mislead many experts in interpreting this fossil as exceptionally preserved.”

    Using advanced techniques to study fossils can reveal their true nature, Rossi said.

    “It is of fundamental importance that research uses new methods to take a closer look at finds that have already been examined,” said study coauthor Fabrizio Nestola, professor of mineralogy and president of the University Center for Museums at the University of Padua, in a statement.

    “The Tridentinosaurus is an example of how science can reveal old secrets — and how new questions can arise from them,” Nestola added. “It will then be the task of our museum to process the newly gained knowledge and bring it to the public in order to lead a scientific and cultural debate.”

    Editor’s note: Sign up for CNN’s Wonder Theory science newsletter. Explore the universe with news on fascinating discoveries, scientific advancements and more.

    SUBMIT A CORRECTION
     
  19. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,942
    Likes Received:
    5,923
    "We consulted the Piltdown Man, he said it was legit!"
     
  20. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    21,024
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    Something else you never thought of.
    "How old are these bones? This standard question in archaeology can be answered quite precisely in many cases with the help of the carbon isotope 14C. But there are exceptions. Certain living habits, such as that of prehistoric hunter-gatherer-fisher communities, can distort 14C dating, because carbon in aquatic ecosystems typically contains less 14C than carbon from terrestrial plants and animals.
    An international team led by researchers from the Leibniz-Zentrum für Archäologie (LEIZA), the ROOTS Cluster of Excellence and Kiel University (CAU) has now been able to date Neolithic graves at the important site of Sakhtysh (Russia) accurately for the first time, thereby identifying new patterns in the cultural development of the era.
    "At the same time, the method used here also enables more precise dating of human remains in other regions with similar environmental conditions," says Dr. John Meadows. He is the lead author of the study, which has been published in Science Advances.
    One of the largest known prehistoric burial sites in northeastern Europe
    In Sakhtysh, about 200 kilometers northeast of Moscow, around 180 prehistoric burials were excavated between 1962 and 1992. Pottery remains show that they date from around 5000 to 3000 BC. This makes Sakhtysh one of the largest known burial sites from this period in northeastern Europe.
    However, the exact dating of the individual burials and thus also their chronological order has so far remained uncertain. One of the reasons: The buried people ate a lot of fish during their lifetime.
    "It is known that this diet reduces the ratio of carbon-14 to carbon-12 in the bones. As a result, the bones appear much too old. These shifts are, moreover, highly variable and have so far been difficult to correct," explains John Meadows, who conducts research at the Leibniz-Zentrum für Archäologie in Schleswig (LEIZA-ZBSA) and at Kiel University and is a member of the ROOTS network.
    The team of the current study compared isotope analyses on two samples of people who were excavated at Sakhtysh: one on a tooth and one on the petrous bone. The teeth and the petrous bone are the only mineralized parts of the human body that are not remodeled after they form, and they are formed at different ages.
    "If diet changed during childhood and adolescence, the differences in isotope values between an individual's tooth and petrous bone allow us to draw conclusions about how much the 14C dating of the individual needs to be corrected," says Meadows.
    A mathematical model of these differences indicated a shift of up to 900 years for some burials. The corrections lead to a completely new chronology of the burial site, which allows new interpretations of the cultural background. For example, an anomalous grave turned out to be the youngest, dating to the early 3rd millennium BCE. The oldest burials, on the other hand, date from the early 5th millennium BCE."
    New approach to carbon-14 dating corrects the age of a prehistoric burial site (phys.org)
     

Share This Page