Franco says yes.

??? The current government of Spain transitioned peacefully from Franco's rule to that of the current democracy. As for Franco he remained in power until he died many years after the death of the other fascist leaders. Your question makes no sense at all.

 

What length of time would that be?
They achieved it in a much worse situation in OTL for 10 months.
They would need no where near that length of time in 1941 to achieve victory.

 

Thus Franco's Spain no longer exists.
Get it?

 

A larger richer Empire I would think.

 

Thus you are saying that if Franco had joined Hitler,on 8 may 1945,Spain would be a large and rich Empire .

Haha (1000 times)

 

Doesn't it? It certainly argueable and in any case "Franco's Spain" outlasted that of all the Axis dictartors by many years. So your point is?

 

Proof it

 

The only way for Franco's Spain and Falangism in particular to last till today would be through a German victory.

 

Have you got confused again?
We are talking about 1940.
Come on try and keep up.

 

Proof that the Axis sat on the Egyptian border for 10 months?
Just take a quick look at the desert War timeline online.

 

If Spain had joined Germany in 1940? Hmm well it would have added another large drain on resources for the Germans as most nations they occupied tended to do, How would Spain rebuilding secure world wide German domination?

 

Its strategic location is important.
The Western Mediterranean can be closed to British shipping, the Germans can operate air and naval power from Iberia, Morocco and the Canaries.
The strategic initiative can then be switched to the Mediterranean as a whole.
2 extra Panzer Divisions can be dispatched to Libya to bring victory in Egypt.
Palestine can be invaded and likely Turkey brought into the war on the Axis side.
The Middle East could be in German hands by May 1942 in time for a postponed Operation Barbarossa.
This would allow another front to be opened in the USSR's vital Caucasus region and and Axis supply shipping in the Black Sea.
Odessa, Sevastopol and the Crimea itself could be over run far more quickly in that situation.
Spain and Turkey will also have available around 40 Divisions each to be deployed against the USSR.
If Spain commits even just 10-15 Divisions to Army Group north Leningrad could be stormed.
Army group South's progress will be far quicker with naval support and Moscow could be taken.
The Caucasus as far as Stalingrad could also be captured.

 

The probability of which was near 0. Indeed Franco would be hard pressed to survive the 40's if he joined the Axis and that only if they did a whole lot better than they really had any chance of doing. Then there's the question of just what Franco wanted Spain to look like after his death? He didn't seem to spend a huge effort insuring that Falangism survived. Indeed it's possible that he wanted it to evolve as it did. Franco played his cards very well and ended up doing better than most would have expected in 1940.

 

There are so many holes in this I'm not even going to bother pointing them out. PLS come back when you have at least a faint understanding of logistics and the constraints under which the Axis were operating.

 

WOW....

You are truly thinking to far ahead, If like me you prefer to stick to the AH section then try and be realistic, Argue your view but make it plausible.

1. Strategic location - Yes it is important but only to an extent. It could increase the range of U-boats and possible have allowed various KM ships to make a dash for Italy rather then the Channel dash they did historically.
2. Closing off shipping - The shipping route was all but non existant except for a small flotilla that made a dash for Malta so this argument has no point.
3. Air and Naval bases in Iberia, Morocco and the Canaries..
Iberia: Seeing as Iberia is pretty much just Spain why not just say Spain? It provides good locations and would provide better protection for Italian shipping in the western Med but aerial projection would be limited by range of aircraft.
Morocco: The point closest to Gibraltar would be of limited use and easily defended but Western Morocco was simply to far away and too large to defend
Canaries: Good location with decent possibility of Naval and Air bases however at the same time there are very susceptible to aerial attacks of there own rendering there limited air and naval power kaput. Add to that there distance and the lack of shipping that could be used to sustain the location and they become a lost cause
4. Switching to the Med - Im assuming that means to delay Barbarossa till 1942+? In which case what do you have in the way of transportation to aid in the sudden strategic change in theaters? Yes they could double supplies being landed in Libya but getting said supplies to the front is a whole other matter.
5. 2 extra panzer divisions would be well liked by Rommel but again logistics, How do you keep the supplies comming when even the British had to stop to build up supplies at times before being able to advance. The further away from your supply base the less efficient your forces become.
6. Palestine huh? Your assuming a successful crossing of the Suez canal, Which is not a guarantee nor is it a guarantee that you take Egypt.
7. Bringing Turkey in on Axis side - You do realise the problems required to do that? The Turkish told both sides that the minimum they required was enough equipment and materials to fit out 40! divisions, That is not something the German arm's industry could achieve.
8. Middle East in German hands by 1942? That assumes that everything goes right and there is not a single logistical problem, Which is a mathematical improbability.
9. New front on the Caucasus - This new front would require further thinning of German forces and open up a host of logistical nightmares.
10. Odessa, Sevastopol and Crimea over run quicker.. - How? Explain how controling Egypt and the Middle East equals to European locations being taken quicker?
11. Spain and Turkey providing 40 divisions each?! - Neither had the industry that could support that number, They both historically told Hitler that if they where to even contemplate joining him that he would have to deliver a large amount of supplies and equipment, Hitler couldn't supply enough for one of them, And you saying that he could get both?! Your talking about arming a good 1 million men with tanks, planes, guns, artillery, train them etc etc in less then a year!
12. Spain and magical 10-15 divisions - Assuming that Hitler that all powerful magician perfects his tricks and pulls 10-15 fully equipped and trained Spanish divisions from his hat (or Kubelwagon ) have you given it any fought as to the logistical situation? Would turn into the longest traffic jam in history.
13. Naval support for AGS = Moscow falling? - Naval support would aid in crushing sieges but unless you rigging the ships up with some big ass wheels they aint making a difference for AGS nor Moscow.
14. Caucasus and Stalingrad fall.. - Possible but requires an overstretched force to fight against and army in highly defensible ground that is equipped to fight there and know the terrain better.. So no guarantee of victory.

All in all I would say stop smoking the Wacky Tabacky.... Your idea's make my thoughts about Germany having her african colonies in WWII seam sane! Keep this up and I might just post it..

 

test

 

Ohh please this is getting ridiculous do you know anything about Franco?
You have still yet to tell me how a European Axis would lose against the USA who mobalised only half the amount of Divisions that the Germans did.

 

We have been over the logistics and and the figures you posted proved 4 Panzer Divisions could be supported in North Africa.
Any other logistical issues you wish to discuss?

 

They wouldn't have to dash.
It would be plane sailing under aircover to Italy.


2. Closing off shipping - The shipping route was all but non existant except for a small flotilla that made a dash for Malta so this argument has no point.

There were 35 major supply operations to Malta from 1940-1942. Eight were frustrated or suffered severe losses from Axis forces: Operations White, Tiger, Halberd, MF5, MG1, Harpoon, Vigorous, and Pedestal. There were long periods when no convoy runs were even attempted, and only a trickle of supplies reached Malta by submarine, or by fast warship. The worst period for Malta was from December 1941-October 1942, when Axis forces had the upper hand, achieving complete air and naval supremacy in the central Mediterranean (called the Italian Mare Nostrum by Benito Mussolini).
At the end of 1942, the limited success of Operation Pedestal enabled Allied ships and aircraft based on the island to become more aggressive and to deny Rommel much-needed supplies. This restricted the capabilities of the Axis armies in North Africa, and Allied land operations in North Africa changed the balance decisively in favour of the Allies. Axis forces in North Africa were then squeezed between the British Eighth Army, advancing from Egypt, and the Anglo-American First Army advancing from Algeria. Convoys henceforth had air protection flying from North Africa. The later invasions of Sicily and Italy were supported from Malta.
Malta Convoys - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thus its likely Malta will fall or be made useless as the least.

It wont be just Spain as the Germans planned to occupy Portugal if Britain occupied the Portuguese Islands.

It is far easier to defend than to attack.
Logistics can come via rail, sea or air.
As for aerial attacks im sure a few Fairy Swordfish will not worry and full Luftflotta and the Spanish Airforce.

 

With no war in the East ground transport and fuel will be in abundance.

As above.

The British were not going to attempt to hold the canal once Alexandria was lost.

With no war in the East the Germans will be able to fit out a host of divisions.
Of course they dont need to they just need access to Turkey to do it themselves.

If it was not practical it would not have been planned and I would not be suggesting it.

Not at all.
The Afrika Korps along with the Italians and Turks would be enough.

Because with the Axis Naval forces in the Black Sea the Soviets will not be able to supply and reinforce Odessa, Sevastopol and Crimea.
Plus the Axis will be able to supply their own forces via the sea.



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