French assistance to U.S. independence

As an effort to get us back on topic, one reason France helped America was that the French were hit by one of the biggest con jobs in history. Benjamin Franklin, upon his arrival in France, set out to secure French aid by giving the French aristocracy exactly what they expected. They all thought that Franklin was a simple rustic philosopher, so he became one. He wore his hair unclubbed, dressed in a simple brown suit, and carried a walking stick of plain applewood. He also had all sorts of witty sayings ready to hand, of course. King Louis XVI and his court never knew what hit them! Next thing you know, France is at war with England again. And it was largely due to Benjamin Franklin.

 

Sorry, what is a "con job"?

 

'Con job' means a bluff. Simply it means making 'someone' believe 'something' while secrectly working to gain benefit for oneself at the expense of the very person you are working with. In other words it means underhand dirty tricks for selfish purposes.

 

"Con" is short for Confidence Man or Confidence Job. He gains your confidence and then gets what he wants.

By the way, Franklin reportedly "conned" a lot of the ladies while he was there. No wonder Ben always smiled in his paintings.

 

Most people remember Marquis de Lafayette, but the French biggest contribution lies in its navy. Although it was never of equal to the British in numbers and especially quality of its fighting seamen, The French threat was enough to force the Royal Navy to stretch its ships and resources to the limit in a global fashion. It was also the French blockade which cut off the British supply and escape line from the sea and enabled the Americans to achieve final victory in Yorktown.

As much as the Americans detest the arrogance of the French, we have to apprecitate their contribution to the war of independence.

 

I can assure you that we are not more arrogant than any other people in the world.
If you think otherwise please tell me why!

 

as above.

In Memoriam.
AMERICAN LOYALISTS AND INDIANS. 1776-1783.
In honoured memory of the 485 American Loyalist Units and the 52 Indian Nations, who fought for the King against the Empires of France and Spain and their Revolutionary Allies.
The Commonwealth Forces History Trust. 37 Davis Road, Acton, LONDON.W3 7SE.

 

While what you say about the French Navy is undoubtedly true, I firmly believe that General Washington considered Rochambeau and his troops to be a Godsend. And I will further state that, IMHO, the Comte de Rochambeau was a fine officer who had a lot of class, as evidenced by his conduct at Yorktown when the British General O'Hara tried to surrender to him instead of to Washington. He refused the Englishman's sword and directed him to present it to Washington, to whom it was properly owed.

 

It has only been in the last 80 years that the French contribution during the Revolutionary War has faded from the American memory. Don't forget, the slogin U.S. troops carried to Europe in WW I was "Lafayette, we are here!". Of course Petain, De Gaulle, and Chirac helped those memories fade.

 

I thought the slogan they carried was "Send the word, send the word over there, that the Yanks are coming, the Yanks are coming, and we're not coming back, we'll be buried over there"...

 

yanks

The words were
"WE won't come back until it's over over there.
(I do have a stack of WW2 sheet music.)

 

Yes, it's not what happened 200 years ago that is important to people today but what has happened in 'living' memory and what is continuing to happen at present. People are more concerned with that than historical moments.

Germany was traditionally Britain's ally before the 20th century. Few people are aware of that.

 

There was no Germany before the 20th century, it was more a cluster of independent states.
Some of them were often allied to the british, others to the russians and others again to the french.

 

But Pétain was really a friend of the USA.(As well as a personal friend to General Pershing!!)
Until early 1943 the US had relations with Vichy until finally they reckoned De Gaulle as the represant of France.
Sorry but I really do not see the americans problem with him.

As for De Gaulle, he surely often disagreed with thew US, but on the really important matters he was always along with the US.(For example in the cuban missiles crisis he was the first european leader to declare total support to american policy)

Of course, the US and France do often not share the same point of view, but that is true for many countries.
But as soon as its between US and France there are certain newspapers in America and Europe that make such a big story of it.
For example in the recent Iraq crisis, there were many countries that did not follow US policy,the most important were China, Russia, Germany and France.
But everyone only seemed to see it as a conflict between the US and France(Freedom Fries.....)

 

That's because France was the most outspoken or so it seemed. Both by the Americans and by the British. Germany can be excused for being a passive nation. That's what everybody wanted after WW2 so let them get on with it, same as Japan. Russia and China haven't been even 'remotely friends' with the U.S.A for ages so it was par for the course.

I'm sure if Britain would have been as outspoken like France then maybe there would have been a similar reaction to us but as we all know that wouldn't have occured in the first place as Britain and America are true allies in this modern world. It sounded as if the French and others were saying "Now you leave that nice Mr Hussein alone you big bully!" :roll:

 

He did say "Non" to NATO, which really did not endear him to the US.
He also seemed to have a dislike of Britain!

 

Wasn't the liberation of Paris a really important matter? And the withdrawal of Allied troops from Strasbourg? In both cases de Gaulle downright disobeyed his American superiors. I think this is one of the thing sthat makes him fit in the list provided by SgtBob.

Ugh! Talk about mixing up international politics with daily life... This makes no sense whatsoever. "Whoever is not with us is against us?" BS!

I know that was the original text. The one I posted was a later American adaptation, more in line with reality as it seemed to the soldiers.
Another one, sung by British soldiers, is "...and they won't get there till it's over over there".

 

You are probably right.

 

Wasn't the liberation of Paris a really important matter? And the withdrawal of Allied troops from Strasbourg? In both cases de Gaulle downright disobeyed his American superiors. I think this is one of the thing sthat makes him fit in the list provided by SgtBob.

No, De Gaulle did not have american superiors.As chief of CFLN(Comité francais de libération nationale) he was the french chief of state.He cannot have superiors in this position.

But I admit that he often was not an easy ally for the US.this also possibly came from the fact that in the first place, Roosevelt wanted General Giraud as CFLN leader, De Gaulle was supported by Churchill.

 

Well, you know what I mean. The Prussians etc and the British Royal family is half of German stock or whatever haha