Friendly Air to Air Kills. Blue on Blue incidents

Hey guys,merry xmas
I've been looking at the b-17 photos with its tail knocked off,and i remember reading somewhere that it did managed to land safely along the english coast or safely bailing out over the channel.Could anyone verify this?

 

"The B-17 is "Miss Donna Mae" 42-31540, with the 331 BS/94 BG. On 19 May 1944, she was part of a force bombing Berlin, being flown by Lt. M. U. Reid. During the bomb run, a thousand-pounder dropped from above knocked off her left tail plane. The plane went into a steep dive and never recovered, losing a wing on the way down - there were no survivors."

 

"The maximum speed was increased in respect to the SM.91 but still did not meet the requested airspeed or armament. It had a complex & advanced structure which contributed to difficulties in producing a working prototype. The prototype MM.531 flew for the first time in October of 1943 & logged a bit more than 21 hours of flight time. In March 1944 it was mistaken for a P-38 Lightning & attacked by a Macchi C.205. The aircraft survived by performing evasive man oeuvres, but it was so badly damaged that the craft was grounded for months."

Savoia Marchetti SM.91 - encyclopedia article about Savoia Marchetti SM.91.

So at least it was manuverable enough to survive this combat.

 

Another incident that isn't exactly between "Friends" but Still interesting.

25.05.43. 2./Vers.Verb.Ob.d.L. Nordwest for Ladoga-sjøen. He 111H-6. Shot down by a Finish fighter​

 

[SIZE=-1]05.04.42. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]III./KG 30. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Ju 88 A-4. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]1188. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]At Trondheim .[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Shoot down by own fighters. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Fw. Josef Herb (F) KIA Fw. Herbert Schmiers (B) KIA Ogfr. Kurt Gross (Bf) KIA Uffz. Paul Brenner (Bs) KIA Uffz. Paul Kaschura (Bm) KIA[/SIZE]

 

I would think that weather and perhaps inexperience may play a part in them. Or just the thrill and moment of the chase. Sometimes there is just seconds for identification.

 

You dont hear about this much at all.

"The British developed an electronic identification device for aircraft during World War II to provide a "friendly" reply to a ground radar's interrogation. (1) The device, appropriately named identification, friend or foe (IFF), was a combination transmitter and receiver (called a transponder) that used a unique signal to identify the aircraft. Because only friendly or enemy combatant aircraft were flying over England, any aircraft not "squawking" was probably a German combatant (or a friendly combatant with malfunctioning equipment). With a lethal envelope of weapons in the visual arena, verification during engagement could reduce the chance that a friendly aircraft would be shot down."

Blue Force Tracking: a subset of combat identification | Military Review | Find Articles at BNET

 

IFF
FuG 25a Erstling: This was an IFF set designed to respond to Freya, Würzburg and Gemse[3] ground control radar through the transmission of identifying pulses. The reception frequency range was 125 + or - 1.8 MHz. Transmitting frequency was 160 MHz. It could be received at up to 100 km (62 miles).
The German Air Force was known to have fitted small aluminum strips which frequently carried explosive charges onto the outside of the equipment aluminium housings. These explosives were linked then by a fuse (a slow match cord that when ignited, allowed for the evacuation of the crew) onto any sensitive apparatus, which allowed it to be destroyed rather than be captured by the Allies.

Luftwaffe radio equipment (Funkgerät) of WW II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I don't remember where exactly I saw it, but I somehow remember a night escort fighter losing its way, and coming back upon its own flight, opening up on his mates. I think it was a Bolton-Paul Defiant, but again, i am not sure at all. if I come across it, i will verify. If not, then I am having a brain-fart here.

 

ok looked over the internet, and, as i slowly began to suspect, yes, I did have a brain fart. Wonder where all that came from, though?

 

" Ralph Barker, in his book 'Srike Hard, Strike Sure' about famous cases of RAF Bomber Command heroism implies that the British Stirling bomber rear gunner who fired and mortally wounded Arthur Aaron did so deliberately to settle an old score.
On August 12th/13th 1943 Arthur Aaron was piloting a Stirling bomber on a raid to Turin, Italy. Stirling's weren't much good, operationally above 14,000 feet.
As Aaron's Stirling bomber made its bomb run a tail gunner in another Stirling, slightly below, opened fire hitting the cockpit and terribly wounding Aaron in the faceand body.
Despite his face being shot in half and one of his arms left dangling by a tendon(imagine the pain!-even with morphia) Aaron insisted in trying to help his crew successfully land the Stirling in North Africa after a four hour journey.
He died shortly after landing ans was buried in Bone, North Africa.
However, the 'friendly' fire from the other Stirling was hushed up in the citation for Aaron's V.C. claiming that the attack on the Stirling was by 'an enemy nighfighter'
But Ralph Barker-in his 1963 book-'Strike Hard, Strike Sure' alleges it was a deliberate act by the other Stirling rear gunner of getting even for an old score against Aaron V.C."

Air to Air friendly fire in Wars in History Channel

 

I am not so sure about that post. The Sterling with the tail gunner with a grudge also has 6 other crewmen and firing off 4 .303 machine guns would get thier attention, plus the mid upper turret gunner would be able to see what was happening. Some Sterlings did not have mid upper turrets but the other crew would want to know and look for what is being shot at.

Aaron's crew would also be looking at who is shooting at them, such as the nose gunner, bomb aimer.

Also their could have been other bombers in the attack looking on.

It might have happened but I am leaning toward a bit of creative writting.

 

I was reading some more about Aaron and he trained in Texas
Near Dallas Texas.

The Royal Air Force in Texas ... - Google Book Search

 

Creative writing?? From a author?? How can that be? LOL

 

Adventure of DN-52 "Osku" - Bombed in Mid-air.

Written by Ossi Juntunen .


It was 23:40 hrs at Linnunniemi airstrip near Joensuu, Finland. Four Do 17 Z-2 bombers of PLeLv 42 (Bomber Squadron) were taking off at the provisory air strip to attack the Soviet air base at Segezha, about 220 km to NE.

The enemy had strengthened the target recently with several bomber regiments, which anticipated that a major air action was being planned. The Finnish high command tried to destroy the enemy on the ground. The raid on the night before had been aborted due to heavy fog on target, and the bombs were dropped on the Murmansk Railway instead.

The weather was cloudy, but good enough for navigation. The small formation of Goering's presents to the FAF, flying above the Carelian wilderness, was led by Capt. E.O.Uotinen. One of the four bombers was DN-52, piloted by 27-year Lt.Jorma Turpeinen. The other crew members were just past their twentieth birthday. Observer Lt. Kaarlo Rundqvist was sitting next to the pilot in the cockpit. The radio operator Sgt. Osmo Rautavaara's battle station was back-to back with the pilot and the gunner, Lance Corp. Vaino Nousiainen, was lying on his stomach below everybody. It was the German design philosopy to keep the aircrew within touching distance from each other. The idea was to create team spirit and feeling of security.

A funny thing had happened before the start. The observer had found he was short on smokes and sent for two packs. Jokingly Lt. Rundqvist explained that in case they would not return, as an educated man he would not remain a plain POW, but would become the mayor of Segezha. It would be beyond the dignity of a mayor to smoke Russian mahorka...

The Dorniers were loaded each with 20 German SC50 50 kg bombs with delayed fuze. The observers had been ordered to aim at the edges of the airfield where the enemy had parked the bombers. At about 00.30 the attackers approached the target at an altitude of 1400 m and formed a loose file. DN-52 was the last plane. Gunner Nousiainen cranked the bomb bay doors open with a hand crank and observer Rundqvist left his seat and kneeled over the bomb sight.

The observer had directed the Dornier on the bombing run and began to give instructions to the pilot as the usual hell broke loose. The Soviet AA artillery opened fire and turned on its searchlights. The first Dornier had been caught in a beam already. Pressure waves created by exploding shells buffeted the DN-52 and the flashes illuminated the bottom of the ragged clouds. 40 mm tracers swept by the cockpit. But the experienced pilot listened only to the voice of the observer:

- Right so...straight on... keep her like this...now they go!

The bombs were released in quick succession. As instructed in the pre-flight briefing, Turpeinen curved tightly to the left and pushed the Dornier's nose down to pick up speed to leave the dangerous zone. At the very moment Turpeinen yelled in the intercom:

-BAIL OUT! BAIL OUT!!!

Less than one second later the cockpit nose glazing crashed in, DN-52 jumped and tilted violently, a strong current of cold air swept in the cockpit. Something fateful had happened.

Observer Rundqvist, having unbuckled for the duration of the bomb run, ejected the escape hatch in the bottom of the cockpit and bailed out. The pilot shouted again: Bail out! Radio operator Rautavaara could not hear him, having unplugged the intercom. Every man was struggling against the powerful air current flowing in through the broken nose, their bomber was now in steep nosedive. The observer noted that they were now too low to use their parachutes. He gesticulated to the pilot to make him take the controls. Turpeinen also noticed that too much altitude had been lost. He threw himself back in his seat and grabbed the yoke. The Dornier responed and began to recover from the dive, shaking and vibrating. The engines were running steadily. The plane kept sinking, although the pilot had already managed to pull the nose up. The radio operator dimly saw the treetops through the escape hatch and everyone heard through the roar of the engines and rush of the air current how the tree branches scraped the bottom surfaces, until the bomber began to regain altitude.

The gunner got up from the bottom corner of the cockpit where he had been flung by the impact and began to close the bomb bay doors without a word. The pilot kept the plane at 500 m and headed for SW. For a long time the men were silent. If only Rundqvist had not bailed out... The pilot had seen how his chute opened, the man survived but could he avoid being taken prisoner? The front line was 50 km away from his point of landing. Well, he had tobacco, anyway. Then the pilot said in the intercom:

- Yes lads, the death was pretty close.

After a while he continued:

- Let's have a smoke.

With great trouble the men managed to light their cigarettes in the air current sweeping through the mangled cockpit.

The crew was now relaxed enough to discuss the incident. The pilot asked whether the others knew what had hit their Dornier. They said it must have been an AA shell, although no one remembered having seen any flash or heard an explosion. No - they had been bombed.

As Turpeinen had turned the plane after the bombs had been released, they somehow had flown below the Dornier piloted by Lt Leminki. He was just releasing his bombs, which Turpeinen had seen falling towards his plane. Two of the bombs hit the DN-52: one went through the nose glazing, another pierced the left wing tip. Fortunately the bombs had a delayed activation in the fuses and were not yet ready to explode. But they had done more than enough damage even as such.

The observer had taken the maps with him as he bailed out, but the radio operator claimed he would recognise the landscape as soon as they had flown enough to the West. The pilot told him to contact the leading plane to let them know that DN-59 was coming home, too.

Rautavaara managed to contact the leading plane, but at first he was not believed: "you are not Osku (their call code), Osku is dead". It took some convincing to made the leading plane radioman believe that DN-52 Osku was alive and flying.

The Dornier was flying at a minimum speed, but the strong air current chilled the crew so that they began to suffer from cold. The autumn night darkness began to fade away and with increasing light the risk of enemy fighters became actual. If the enemy at Segezha had seen how one bomber was damaged, they could send a fast MiG-3 to chase. Fortunately the eastern sky remained empty, and the Dornier approached the home base.

Turpeinen was instructed to land on the main base at Onttola near their point of departure. He suggested that the others should bail out in case there were an undercarriage problem in landing, but the men refused. The pilot extended the undercarriage and flew once around the airfield before the final approach. The landing was perfect, the fire truck was not needed. Curious ground personnel gathered to gawk at the damaged bomber.

- Less job for you this time, the pilot said. - You do not need to close the belly hatch.

Then it was time to report to the squadron leader, major Artola:

- Good morning, sir . Lt. Rundqvist has taken transfer to be the mayor of Segezha.

In reality Lt. Rundqvist was immediately caught and sent to the nearest POW camp. Later, on the 22 November 1943 Lt. Leminki had been shot down (while he was carrying material for a reconnaisance patrol deep in the enemy rear with a Heinkel He 115) and became a POW. The two officers met in Camp Tscherepowetsch. As Rundqvist learned that DN-52 had returned to the base he used some very bad language...

The two lieutenants were repatriated in December 1944 in poor health. Gunner Nousianen was later transferred to PleLv 44 equipped with Ju 88 A4. He was killed during the campaign against Germans as his plane made a forced landing in a lake in Lapland . The other men survived the war.

WW II ACE STORIES

 

"In the beginning of April 1942 he was transferred to Novocherkask to get acquainted with Me-109E. Here there was established the new special regiment with Me-109 in its service. In spring 1942 Pokryshkin flew a Me-109E delivered by a defecting Croatian pilot. When he met a SB bomber in the air, the pilot of the SB did not realize the rather dull red stars, seeing only a goddamn Messerschmitt and made a forced landing on a flushed meadow. Another 'own victory' for Pokryshkin after the Su-2 adventure. Only minutes later, almost the same thing repeated with a U-2. "

http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=36209&start=25

 

OOPPSS wrong thread LOL.

 

"During the period 1939 to 1942, twenty Blenheim fighter-bombers were shot down through mis-identification by RAF pilots and anti-aircraft fire (Seven were shot down by Hurricanes). This resulted in the deaths of thirty-two aircrew with seven others injured. Nineteen other aircraft were damaged by being fired upon by mistake."

Anyone have any additional info on the Hurricane incidents?

 

"On April 29, 1944, a group of American P-47 Thunderbolt fighters mistakenly strafed the airstrip at Cutella on Italy's Adriatic coast, the pilots thinking that it was a Luftwaffe airfield. The airstrip was a base for the Royal Australian Air Force 239 Wing which included 3 and 450 Squadrons. One 3 Squadron Kittyhawk fighter was destroyed and three more damaged. Human casualties were one pilot of an Air Sea Rescue Walrus float plane killed and a few other ground personnel wounded. Tragedy was to strike again next day when a pilot of one of the attacking Thunderbolts, realizing a mistake had been made, flew to the airstrip to apologize. Unfortunately he was killed when his plane crashed when taking off to return home."

I can see perhaps another aircraft. But a whole airstrip?

 

08/08/1944. Albemarle P1501. Shot dead in error by 604 Sqn (Mosquito). mistaken for a Do 217.
AOUT 44