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General guidelines for re-enacting and living history impressions

Discussion in 'Living History' started by Stefan, May 27, 2003.

  1. William

    William Member

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    They are now producing "new" M1's, but from what I've heard, they are no good, especially if you also want to live fire them. Something about the receiver and barrel not really lining up or something.

    If you look, about all you will find are M1 parts. To get a complete, firing M1 your best bet is to go to gun shows or smaller, Mom and Pop type gun stores. I got mine YEARS ago when they were still affordable. Last time I looked at prices, which was a few years ago, they were in the $600-$800 range.

    Eisenhower, if you want some tips on where/what/how, drop me a PM. I'm no expert, but I've been doing GI for a few years now, so I may be able to help ya.

    Rip
     
  2. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    how did you people start reenacting at 15 if you're not at a legal gun-owning age (those of you who are in America). did you get someone to buy it for you or something?
     
  3. panzergrenadiere

    panzergrenadiere Member

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    Most units won't all a minor to carry a gun or reenact. Usually I went medic / sani for events. Theres lots of things a person can do at an event without having a rifle. As for buying gear try www.atthefront.com. they always have tots of stuff.

    [ 27. October 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: panzergrenadiere ]
     
  4. William

    William Member

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    Well, first off, you don't necessarily need to have a weapon to reenact. Especially if you are in say a German unit, you could be a Helfer or Helferin of some sort-running messages or water back and forth, etc. There is a LOT more to reenacting then burning powder.

    You can also be a member of a lot of units at age 16 and can participate in living histories without a weapon, then take the field at 18.

    I'm not going to go into how to obtain firearms when not of "legal" age on the boards, but some carefully worded questions asked privately "might" get some answers.

    Rip
     
  5. Modus

    Modus Member

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    As to how to better one's impression, I advocate filling one's pockets. There is, in my opinion, nothing as uncool as empty or flat pockets. Those pockets are there for a reason! Fill them with letters from home, identification papers, spare food, spare socks, gloves, scarves, utensils, canopeners, knives, lighters, matchsticks, cigs, you name it. Remember - these guys carried a good deal of the every day things on them at all times!

    I don't think I need to add to much here - if you see period pictures and then compare them to reenactors you will see what I mean.
     
  6. Eisenhower

    Eisenhower Member

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    ah...I never thought of that. thanks for the suggestions. hahaha...thanks anyway, william but I really dont want to get into that...I'll just stick with being a medic.
     
  7. BratwurstDimSum

    BratwurstDimSum Member

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    You mean like this?:

    [​IMG]

    Wehrmacht soldiers of Grenadier Reg. 88 / 15 Inf Division, getting some fast food.

    [​IMG]

    I've got loads of photos with soldiers breaking reenactor's 10 commandments on a regular basis :eek: , especially when the climate got warmer!

    Hee hee hee couldn't resist :D
     
  8. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    Fair enough, except they were not in full uniform were they? They are in 'undress' and so do not need a head dress. As for the rest, as I said they are 'general guidelines' not commandments. The fact is that in most armies (from my limited experience as well as what I have gleaned from others) if you walk around a barrack square, a town, even a bunker or trench to some extent, if you are not 'dressed' correctly you will be balled out. Obviously there are exceptions, you wouldn't expect soldiers to wear their field greys in the shower or for pt, but when they were wearing them they should be worn properly.

    As for the '10 commandments' thing, well you can find photos to proove anything really can't you? I have photos that prove that SS soldiers wore several items of allied gear, that German soldiers carried pens in their pockets with the clips sticking out and that they had long hair and beards. The idea is to portray the rule not the exception, as well as to show the public what these people would look like under certain circumstances. As most re-enactors do not make the effort to 'grub up' or look even remotely tired, why should they get away with looking generally scruffy?
     
  9. BratwurstDimSum

    BratwurstDimSum Member

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    Hey Stefan,

    You are easy to wind up ;) I'm only kidding mate. You wrote such a good set of guidelines I had to add my own :D
     
  10. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    Nah, just explaining where I was coming from, loads of people criticise re-enactors on the most rediculous grounds. Anyhow, its always worth a bit of criticism.
     
  11. 5-0-duce

    5-0-duce Member

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    a lot of units let the age thing slide, and yes you have a parent or relative buy the gun for you. i started when i was 16, and they had no problem with me carrying a gun. they give me shit just like one of the regular guys and i give it right back. why wouldnt they let you carry? i mean some guys did lie about their age in WWII, wouldnt it make it more accurate ;)
     
  12. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Hiya,
    Not into re-enacting at all, but I can see how it can be absorbing.
    Only got one beef though-don't some people get so anal about detail?! (not in this thread btw). I remember seeing the website for a UK based re-enactors group who were supposed to be a Guards Battalion in WW2. They insisted all prospective volunteers had "matching" BD suits(!), and I think they also insisted ALL kit actually had to be date stamped in the war-time period. That's a bit much when no-one's going to see that the underside of a '37 pattern webbing strap's dated 1954: it's EXACTLY the same as the wartime article.
    Now, my old man did four years in the war. I also know several other British veterans , and none of them remember even SEEING a matched set of BD during the war. Dad remembers it being well into his TA days in the '50's before he realised BD was supposed to match! :D I can only remember seeing one colour pic of British troops where there wasn't 20 shades of khaki serge on view.
    IMHO that "Re-enactment" group blew themselves out of the water by introducing modern pedantry into the "Make-Do-And-Mend" era.

    Regards,
    Gordon

    [ 28. December 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]
     
  13. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    I agree 100%, my units policy is to ensure a certain standard of authenticity (basically so that everything looks right) and if you want to go further that is up to you. There is no rule about date stamps etc, matching colours would be just plain wrong if eferyone wore them, but if you want to get your kit stamped, carry authentic documents etc then fair enough. A lot of people do get rather daft over it, insisting on certain things that are not necessary which I am sure cuts into their membership no end, I like a level of flexibility they just don't offer.
     
  14. William

    William Member

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    Well, here is my .02 on that subject.

    My group tries to be as authentic as possible. I mean, it's the least we can do, right? To that end, almost everything we take out, whether it is to a living history or a "battle", is 100% original to WWII. That includes undergarments (nothing like crawling through the mud in 60 year old underwear :D ).

    Now, it's an unstated rule in our group that if it goes into the field, there should be at least one BETTER example of that object left home in your collection. That is for everything-uniform, equipment, paper items, whatever.

    The only modern things we allow are the cigarettes we smoke (although they MUST be a WWII brand-my personal choice is Lucky Strike), the matches or lighter fluid used to light said smokes, boots, and food (although we repack everything in repop boxes to look like K-Rats).

    Anal? Yes, probably. But, like I said, we try to do things right. Once, one of my guys wanted to wear modern long johns to a Winter event. No one would see them, right? Well, I said he either had to get WWII ones, or not wear any, or not come, his choice.

    As far as matching colors, I have to agree with what has been said. It's rare to find photos of guys who had just been issued uniforms where everything is matching color-wise, let alone folks in the field.

    The hobby is what you make of it really. Some folks just want to dress up and play soldier, some are middle of the road authenticity wise, then there are the super hard core folks. It's a matter of finding what is right for YOU, and what you want to get out of the hobby.
     
  15. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    It depends on the unit, to be honest it would be near impossible to be that strict with a German unit, after all what kind of undies did SS men wear?
     
  16. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    And to be honest, who cares about THAT level of authenticity anyway? Do you honestly think the original guys wouldn't have replaced army issue kit with something better (even if civilian) at the first available opportunity?

    Regards,
    Gordon
     
  17. William

    William Member

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    Historian-
    For starters, I care about that level of authenticity. So do the guys I run with. Like I said, it's not for everyone. Some guys like to take it as far as they can, that's all. If that includes wearing nothing but original items, so be it. I'm not going to inspect each guys drawers, but I expect 'em to be original. Just because you don't see why it is done does not mean one shouldn't do it.

    And yes, I know for a fact the guys looked for alternatives. One of my side projects is contacting vets of WWII, and many a GI and Soldat have said they would raid dressers in houses for underwear, be they cotton or silk, male or female.

    Stefan-
    The issue German underwear I'm familiar with were basically boxers and t-shirts in a mesh-type fabric. There were others as well, but I've seen those types mostly.

    Rip
     
  18. William

    William Member

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    And just to clarify what I feel are a few "loose ends" on my previous post.

    I don't make anyone outside of my unit do the original thing. In fact, except for the once instance I mentioned, no one in my group is made to do anything. Like in all hobbies, one sort of gravitates towards folks with like ideas.

    We'll go to an event, and if the guys look bad (a Vietnam era field jacket instead of a real '43 field jacket-"Hey, they look similar" or modern food in modern wrappers for example), we ignore them and do our own thing. Sometimes doing our own thing means not attending certain events, or starting our own events.

    That is because for some folks the event is to see how many blanks they can fire in a weekend. For others it is to try to take a time traveling trip. Of course, those of us with our heads screwed on right (and judging by the interests of various folks on this board not many of us do :D ) know we will NEVER come anywhere close to that "real" feeling. But all the little things, wearing accurate clothing right down to the drawers, eating "period" rations, speaking about period topics, help get us one step closer.

    If that step closer means doing or own thing, so be it. For an example of that, I and a couple others have been working on a small "immersion" event. In fact, I've spoken with a few of the folks in this thread on that very thing. Part of this event includes the building of a period correct German outpost to look recently abandoned-complete with personal items left behind-uniform pieces, equipment, letters, photos, food, etc, etc. All these little extras are paid for out of my pocket, and I fully intend for them to be "liberated" by the guys there. Meaning I'll never see them again. Again, it boils down to what each individual wants to get out of the hobby.

    Another point I'd like to make in this long-winded rambling, is age. I am 32 years old. Getting close to the limit on an authentic GI. In a couple years I will have to STOP reenacting as a GI rifleman. I will just be too old to accurately portray one. Most reenactors who hear this look at me like I'm crazy. But, we need to be authentic, right? How authentic is it to have a GI rifleman in his mid 30's running around? Was it done in real life? Yes. Was it common? No. And that is why I have to quit. Anal on my part? Probably. Good for accuracy? You bet! That's why I've started a Volkssturm group.

    Again, just to reemphasize my point. There are many levels of authenticity in the hobby. Each person is more then welcome to find his or her niche in the hobby. But, there are those out there that get into it more then others would ever dream. Good for them (although I have so far drawn the line at living in a foxhole for weeks on end in the winter-I know guys that do that as well).

    Rip
     
  19. Langemann

    Langemann Member

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    Stefan, follow the link below and you'll be able to see and even purchase yourself a pair of reproduction German WWII underwear. Of course they'd need to have the RZM stamp in them, but you get the picture.

    http://www.lostbattalions.com/TropUnderwearSet.html

    Langemann
     
  20. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    William-
    sorry, but that's ridiculous.

    Regards,
    Gordon

    [ 31. December 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]
     

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