German military performances

I guess that just goes to show the whole Culture/Race Argument!

 

Actually italians are as brave as any other soldiers.
The reason why they did not perform well in WW2 was due to the fact that Italy was a backward country not able to equipp it's armed forces with valuable equippment.
Also italian society was rather anti militaristic, and the officer career was not attractive for intelligent/ambitious men, so the whole officer corps was very poor.

Your other question is rather interesting.
Why could the super power of the antic world crumble and never really play a predominant role ever since??
There is I think some sad law of nature which says that something that has reached it's highest point of development, begins to fade away the very same moment.
This is true for men(you just begun feeling adult and already the first grey hair appear)but also for countries.

I think an important reason why Italy is not a model of efficiency as a state is because italians do not really feel as a nation.
Regional/familial particularities are much more important to the average italian than the state.Loyalty to the state is not a priority there.
Sicilians barely feel being Italians, northern italians usually do not really respect southern italians......

 

But, Roel, I am just doing the points on race for the sake of discussion. Of course you are right that the cultural influences are decisive. My very point about Prussians being largely Slavic was all about it.
Howerver, there is something about the Germans. If I knew what it was I would not be here throwing about strange historical parallelae etc. Verstehen?

Castelot. A fine entry. And how true. But. I can´t make myself to believe that Frenchmen don´t care what others think about them. They just do it much more discretely (nonchalant). Casually. Elegant. A little disorder here or there, so that the neighbor doesn´t think that order and cleanliness is in any way important for the Frenchman. Ain´t I un petit peu right, Castelot?
I would not say that Germans fear disorder. Helmuth Schmidt said once that the French being more brilliant than Germans don´t need order, while Germans have to be more "rectangular" not to get lost in something.
FNG, I just can´t anything to add. We seem to think very similar. But, how come that the aboriginal Russians needed a Viking Einspritzung to get a powerful state?

Simonr1978´s remark is maybe the best example here, how quickly we can become "German".

Castelot, these provincial particularisms were certainly also present in ancient Rome. The attractiveness of the metropoly was then just too great. It was "their" time of greatness. Not only men and countries. Flowers also are most beutiful just before they wither….
In Iraly, they live now through a phase where loyalty to clan, family, local community means much much more than that to central government. I think that phase was already in place in Mussolini´s time. Therefore there was so little splendor in their armed forces. It was nobody´s war.

 

I was of course generalizing....

 

When I was in Germany with my friend last year, he caused an awful loot of curious looks. He was brought up in London, where pedestrians cross the road whenever there is a big enough gap in traffic to run through. Meanwhile, the Germans (and myself) would wait on the other side of the road until the little green man appeared.

Another rambling anacdote - we have a German girl at church. One sunday, she & I were in charge of serving the tea & coffee after the service. I got everything ready beforehand, all neatly & logically laid out, ready for the end of the service, so all I had to do was fill the teapots & we were ready.
This German girl wandered up, looked at my preparations, loked at me, and said "You're too German!"

 

Funny thing with these red lights:
When I went to New York after a longer sojourn in Germany, I felt a sort of shock, upon seeing people crossing the streets all the time. I even approached a policeman and asked him: "is it allowed to cross the streets on red light in NY"?.
He sighed: Let them just do it. What can I do? If one of these things (cars) hits them, they´ll know it´s a bad idea".

 

Mind you, New York (I have been only twice, on day-trips) seems to have no traffic rules at all...

 

Wasn't it Lenin who said that:"Before our german revolutionary comrades storm a railway station they always buy platform tickets first."....

 

only too true

as a new yorker [ but not the city type. i live 300+miles away] we do tend to have a casual view of traffic laws. NYcity is nuts even by our standards but if you want real insanity drive in LA sometime.

 

I know, lynn. But my NY trip was directly form West Germany.
Yes, Castelot, it was Lenin. That is, among other things, the reason why, according to the Soviet doctrine, communism could only spread as a consequence of major war.

 

Re: only too true

If you really want to take your life into your hands (or someone elses!) try an Italian or Spanish city sometime, some of the most terrifying experiences of my life have been as a pedestrian or passenger in one of those two places! :lol:

 

Re: only too true

When I was in Italy I was with a Canadian colleague and we were told when you cross the road do not look. This is because if a car hits you it is the drivers fault if you do not see him/her they will drive around you, if you look the driver knows you have seen him/ her and will drive straight, Bang.

So I tried it, in the middle of Rome. We both stood 5 yards 4.5 metres from the road (approximate distances for the Mr. pedantic), Then I walked into the road and across (I did cheat using peripheral vision). all the cars drove around me with not a hoot. So Brad walked out and became scared so he looked at this point the first car drove straight at him, I did chuckle.

 

The same tactics works on sidewalks in all cities in the world. Don´t look ahead, go quickly and keep your shoulders wide. And all sidewalk is yours.

It works EVEN in Tel-Aviv!!!!!

 

Verstehen, aber immer noch nicht Einverstanden!

Where did this topic digress into traffic habits?

Seriously. I was hoping right from the start that this topic wouldn't get racial, but rather cultural if you had to throw it onto people's collective traits. Please try to keep it thus.

 

People talk what they think. It is good to have a possibility of expressing one´s opinion without getting gagged. None of the utterances, after all, have been racist, isn´t it? Shall we be so terribly politically correct?
This forum is, after all, not some "PRAVDA"......

"Racism has historically been defined as the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, that a certain race is inherently superior or inferior to others, and/or that individuals should be treated differently according to their racial designation. Sometimes racism means beliefs, practices, and institutions that discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race." (Wikipedia).

 

I was mildly amazed, when staying with a friend in Vienna, at the ticket system for their excellent Underground/Subway system.
Basically, somewhere along the entry tunnel are a few ticket machines, at which you buy your ticket. There are no staff, here is no barrier, and there are no inspectors on the trains/platforms. But everybody stops and buys themselves a ticket.

In my local train station, I have seen people climb over 8 foot walls to avoid the ticket barrier. :roll:

As to crossing roads, I always find that it helps to walk with a female - preferrably a pretty one. Nobody wants to run over a woman. In Italy, cross following a nun. Everything stops for them!

 

....and don´t forget to lease a cow when you arrive in India next time (this info in case your Baedecker doesn´t tell you).

 

Should be in Garmany or Hlland and watch people waiting at the pedestrian crossing for the man to change green. No cars for miles and people wait patiently for the lights to change before crossing. then you follow the same people into shops where they push straight to the counter.

But I still like both countries, except for the dirty fag smokers, they are everywhere.

 

what is fag smokers?

I like Germany very much too. Strange for a Jew but I really do. Many decent people. And trustworthy....

 

fag = cigarette.
In British, anyway!

In American, fag = homosexual (derived from 'faggot', which us Brits still use), but I doubt GP meant this use, being a Brit himself.

Me, I also tend to like the Germans I have met. I had a very lovely time when I was over there on holiday.
However, exactly the same is true of the French, Austrians, Americans (and everywhere else I have been / every nationality I have met).