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GLORY OF DISHONOUR

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe' started by Arhivist_Kharkov, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    The Hague Conventions gave the combatants the right to prosecute war crimes but didn't require it.
    You could prosecute all of them, only the committed against you, or none. It was your decision.
    So the question why they didn't do it in some cases is actually pointless. They didn't have to.
     
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  2. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    -snip----
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  3. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    The US was attacked by two major powers and had to spend enormous resources to repeal the attacks and defeat the aggressors.
    No to mention the hundreds of thousands young Americans who were killed or maimed.

    That some people benefited in the process, were liberated, rescued, or helped was just the icing on the cake, for which _they_ should be eternally grateful and STFU.

    Nothing worse than the constant (and frequently based on fake history) whining the Americans didn't this or that for us.
    The Americans owned you nothing, they weren't your keepers.
    But they owned a lot to their young men who had to pay with blood for your this or that.

    The Americans not only defeated the aggressors (they didn't have to, earlier it was customary to negotiate an advantageous peace and be done with it) but helped the defeated folks and their victims recover.
    Only thanks to the Americans Europe and Japan are wealthy today.
    And only thanks to the Americans Europe don't speak German or Russian, and Japan isn't a North Korea clone.
     
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  4. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    The tittle “Glory of Dishonor” itself is rather eloquent. Indeed: what happened at the Eastern Front is Dishonour in all it’s "glory". And dishonor has dragged long after the last bullet has been shot at the East.
    The documentary is a real refreshment after countless western infotainment »documentaries« with “edited history” narratives illustrated with scenes from Göbbels’ Deutsche Wochenschau footage. The video shows pure and harsh truth. It is professionally conceived, by real historians familiar with the region.
    The central issue of the documentary, in my humble view, appears to be the absence of Justice for these perpetrators who cleverly surrendered to Western Allies and got away with it easily.
    The problem with the post-war Western Justice has its origins at the very core of the war, in the reasons of the war: the entire world war 2 was a gigantic struggle for global supremacy and subjugation of “deplorable nations". Once the war at the west has been won, the next step was to eliminate the second main obstacle towards the goal of total global domination: USSR. For that reason Western Allies needed Nazi bastards - to do the dirty job for them. The Wehrmacht, with SS units incorporated was to be restored as the Bundeswehr. Manstein, for example, a hardcore war criminal was fully rehabilitated and even was invited to address the Bundestag the highest institution of the Federal Republic of Germany. I wonder why they hesitated to invite Mengele too? He doesn't differ much from Manstain and vice versa. Many others too were incorporated into the Bundeswehr. The assassins were unleashed from prisons to spearhead new Drang nach Osten for new masters. That is why the Western Justice was so blinded – with hatred against »the Russians«.
    I hope Ukrainian would once learn the lesson they failed to learn from not so distant past: during the Great war they have gone through the same Hell.
    In extraordinary situation, the Justice is best served fresh, while wounds are still opened, without delay. Bitter medicine at bitter wounds. Otherwise the aggressor may escape and misunderstand gentlemanship as an invitation for the recurrence. Unfortunately, far too many innocent died for wrong reasons without adequate retribution.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  5. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Nothing like a conspiracy theory in the morning.
    The only question is who are the folks behind the evil Americans: The Jews or the lizard people.
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    ???? Accident!!!!

    There are times when it needs to be mentioned, other times it's not needed or relevant, and some times in between. Referring to it as an ACCIDENT is on the same level as Holocaust denial though in my book.
    Really warped comparisons lacking in logic and context. A bit of rather bogus history there as well.
    You are at the wrong place here if you are looking for compassionate, honest people who want to know the truth.[/quote]
    That's one opinion but hardly a shared one indeed very much a minority one.
    Not sure why you have gone off the deep end and become such an apologist for any and all actions of the Soviets but have fun with that just about anywhere.

    You used to be better than this.
     
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  7. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    You don't have anything to worry about here that I can see. I'm not an admin but the ones we do have are very much into preserving and sharing history. Don't late Tamino discourage you.
     
  8. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    @lwd
    Just watch that documentary and you'll learn how flawed your view is: Soviet civilians were victims, not the Wehrmacht, not the SS.

    Unfortunately, your view seem to be poisoned by a century of Imperialist propaganda (1919 - 2019) that you simply cannot see and conceive the truth.

    There is no doubt: Soviet union fought a defensive war whilst the British Empire, later joined by the US, fought a war for world domination. Churchill, the Ultimate Imperialist, wrote the Imperialist History you accept as Gospel. In some countries, different view on history is punishable by law. Good example of the results of Churcillian Which Hunt is destiny of David Irwing. He was imprisoned for defending the truth. I am lucky enough that my country supports freedom of thought.

    And, do not be angry with me: I am just telling you the bitter truth.
     
  9. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Where did I say that the Wehrmacht or the SS were the victims? Although the fact that many Soviet civilians were victims doesn't mean that the German soldiers were not.
    Looks to me more like you are reading things into statements that aren't there and have absorbed way too much Soviet propaganda yourself.
    Actually there's considerable doubt as to that. Remember the Soviets joined the Germans to start the war by attacking Poland. That was hardly defensive. Furthermore the US and Great Britain gave up some of their more significant colonies/possessions in the immediate after math of the war. Hardly consistent with fighting for world domination. Then there's that whole thing about Communism clearly aiming at world domination. The activities of the USSR and Communist in general in the aftermath of WW2 were consistent with that doctrine.
    ??? How do you know what I do or don't accept as "Gospel". It's certainly not Churchill's history. He was hardly the "Ulitmate Imperialist" in any case as he was far more concerned with preserving Great Britain than expanding it's grasp.
     
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  10. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    That the Americans waged "a war for world domination" is quite an ignorant statement, see below:

    Four Policemen
    The term "Four Policemen" refers to a post-war council consisting of the "Big Four" that U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt proposed as a guarantor of world peace.

    The members of the Big Four, called the Four Powers during World War II, were the four major Allies of World War II: the United Kingdom, the United States, the Soviet Union and China.

    The United Nations envisioned by Roosevelt consisted of three branches: an executive branch comprising the Big Four, an enforcement branch composed of the same four great powers acting as the Four Policemen or Four Sheriffs, and an international assembly representing the member nations of the UN.


    The Four Policemen would be responsible for keeping order within their spheres of influence: Britain in its empire and in Western Europe; the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe and the central Eurasian landmass; China in East Asia and the Western Pacific; and the United States in the Western hemisphere.
    As a preventive measure against new wars, countries other than the Four Policemen were to be disarmed. Only the Four Policemen would be allowed to possess any weapons more powerful than a rifle.
     
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  11. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    But you know who claimed it was a war for world domination? It was all Stalinist propaganda.

    ---
    7 September 1939
    At the Kremlin (Stalin, Molotov, Zhdanov), Salin:
    A war is on between two groups of capitalist countries...for the re-division of the world, for the domination of the world!
    We see nothing wrong in their having a good hard fight and weakening each other.

    It would be fine if at the hands of Germany the position of the richest capitalist countries (especially England) were shaken. Hitler, without understanding it or desiring it, is shaking and undermining the capitalist system....
    We can maneuver, pit one side against the other to set them fighting with each other as fiercely as possible. The non-aggression pact is to a certain degree helping Germany.
    Next time we we’ll urge on the other side.

    ---
    The current war is imperialist and unjust. The bourgeoisie of all the warring states is to be held responsible for it. This war cannot be supported by the working class of these countries, not to mention its communist parties. This war is not waged against fascism by the bourgeoisie despite the affirmations of Chamberlain and the leaders of social-democracy. This war takes place between two groups of capitalist countries for world domination.
    Directive on the Outbreak of War, 8th September, 1939
    ---
     
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  12. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    The Second World War occurred from 1939 to 1945 and is the only conflict in which atomic bombs have been used. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, in Japan, were devastated by atomic bombs dropped by the United States. Nazi Germany was responsible for genocides, most notably the Holocaust, the killing of six million Jews. The United States, the Soviet Union, and Canada deported and interned minority groups within their own borders, and largely because of the conflict, many ethnic Germans were later expelled from Eastern Europe. Japan was responsible for attacking neutral nations without a declaration of war, such as the bombing of Pearl Harbor. It is also known for its brutal treatment and killing of Allied prisoners of war and the inhabitants of Asia. It also used Asians as forced laborers and was responsible for the Nanking massacre where 250,000 civilians in the city were brutally murdered by Japanese troops. Non-combatants suffered at least as badly as or worse than combatants, and the distinction between combatants and non-combatants was often blurred by belligerents of total war in both conflicts.
    The outcome of World War II had a profound effect on the course of world history. The old European empires either collapsed or were dismantled as a direct result of the wars' crushing costs and, in some cases, their fall was due to the defeat of imperial powers. The United States became firmly established as the dominant global superpower, along with its ideological foe, the Soviet Union, in close competition. The two superpowers exerted political influence over most of the world's nation-states for decades after the end of the Second World War. The modern international security, economic, and diplomatic system was created in the aftermath of the wars.
    Institutions such as the United Nations were established to collectivize international affairs, with the explicit goal of preventing another outbreak of general war. The wars had also greatly changed the course of daily life. Technologies developed during wartime had a profound effect on peacetime life as well, such as by advances in jet aircraft, penicillin, nuclear energy, and electronic computers.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    or arguably from 1937 to 1945 or 1941 to 1945 and one could even extend the 45 based on when the treaties were signed I believe. So what's your point?
    Indeed so what's your point? How is this relevant to the topic at hand?
    But you just stated Irving was telling the truth and he's a holocaust denier!
    What "minority groups" did the US or Canada deport? A bit if a difference between internment camps in the US and Canada as opposed to th e USSR as well.
    Again what's your point? How is this relevant to the topic at hand?
    Same questions. As far as I can tell the photo was a complete waste of bandwidth as it has 0 relevance to the topic or the rest of your post.
     
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  14. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    It's a copy/paste from an unreliable article on Wikipedia (This section needs additional citations for verification. ... Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.)

    But anyway, boring!

    Let's try the "dishonor" thing.
    Soviet Soldier Raping a Pregnant Woman. A monument in Gdańsk (former Danzig), Poland.

    ab99f16a-3409-11e3-b75f-0025b511229e.jpg
     
  15. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    snip-----------
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  16. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    You mean this one? It's only about 10KB!

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    Translation PLEASE!
     
  18. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    One of the problems with this post is that you forget that Hitler was a piker compared to Stalin who was surely the second largest mass murderer in history behind Mao Ze Dung? (SP?)
     
  19. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    If you believe this load of claptrap, you are certainly an I3S&E.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  20. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    To site the dropping of Nuclear weapons as some sort of a crime against humanity is I3S&E! Conventional bombs killed many more people in several one night raids than both A-Bombs combined! Check your facts! Secondly their use saved literally much more than ten millions of Japanese lives and maybe a million Allied lives too! War is HELL and only those who lived it can truly know it's nature.

    Tamino, you seem like a passionate, but very unreasonable type of guy. I would suggest that you take a break, read a whole bunch of western Conservative thinkers and historians to know the truth about the Communists of all stripes who collectively killed more innocent people than all others in all other Nations in all of history!
    Sincerely,
    Stewart.
     

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