Grant Kosovo Independence?

You are right and we all know it would be suicide to stick to our own cultural heritage nowadays. However this is precisely the point. Why would we jeopardise the unity of the union and a 63 years old peace by letting in countrIes who aren't ready yet? There are 27 countries in the Union now. The question is what would an independent Kosovo change for? We don't need it to compete for China that' for sure.

 

Exactly...or...should I say, most of them. Kosovo will have its independence, unite with Albania...then goes western Macedonia (already tried that 7 years ago, and the keg is about to blow yet again) and Chemeria (in Greece), the plans for Greater Albania will undoubtedly realize, and then you got a reason to worry about a new Balkan war...weeee... Never mind... I don't want to bother you with this, you'll most probably label me as a nationalist (I myself am a Macedonian ).

What I wanted to say about this issue is that any modifications of European borders would undoubtedly cause many problems for Europe. Ever think of Scotland, Northern Ireland, Moldova, Chechnya, Euskadi...

 

Damn Nationalist!

Oh and Welcome!

 

Actually this is great to have you on this forum Konigstiger and having the point of view of a Macedonian is very welcome. I remember going to Greece a few years ago and I was shocked that even the phone cards claimed that "Macedonia is one and only and that it is Greek". So basically if you believe them, it means that you don't exist. This is just ridiculous. As if there is a whole on the map instead of your country. So Kosovo should be independent and Macedonians dont even have the right to choose the name of their own country? Albania wants western Macedonia too? Didn't know about that one. Could you please tell us more Konigstiger?

 

Well, I actually don't know where to begin. You know the region's history is extremely delicate, and very fragile - well established dogmas can disappear all of a sudden. Let's start with the origin of these people. Albanians claim to be descendants of the Illyrians, though both their culture and physical looks are not similar to that of the Illyrians. Also, the absence of specialized maritime words in their language brings to suspicion the claim that they have lived near the sea since ancient times. I shall speak more on this issue (why they are not Illyrians) another time. Now, it is being theorized (again I shall say, nothing can be claimed as the definite truth) that they were brought here from the Caucasus region by the Ottomans to serve them. They were (no offense to any Albanian, but still are) a wild tribe, burning villages and terrorizing the local population which caused thousands of natives (including many Macedonians) leave their homes.

Now moving to not-so-distant history, June 10, 1878, the creation of the League of Prizren, a political organization aimed at "uniting the Albanian lands" and creating Greater Albania

There you go...the final goal of the League. It not only includes Kosovo, but more Serbian territories, part of Montenegro including Podgorica - the capital, western Macedonia, including Skopje - the capital, and Chemeria part of modern Greece. According to some Bulgarian nationalists, the rest of Macedonia should be annexed by Bulgaria, with the goal of "protecting the Macedonian Bulgarians"

Now, about Kosovo. I wouldn't say its economy can survive on its own despite its energy production potential (huge reserves of coal). As someone above stated, it isn't about economy, it's about nationalism. I have seen them work together, I know a few Albanians, they all work on the big plan. It's Albania first, personal and family interests second, and I admire that. Skip, you asked if Albania wanted western Macedonia. Officially, Albania has no claims whatsoever, their government supports the independence of Kosovo, but does not seek to annex it. The unification should be realized through a referendum in Kosovo, where the Albanian majority would vote for unification. It was also proposed here for western Macedonia few months ago, but after it went without notice, improvised road signs (aerosol spray on concrete ) saying welcome to Republic of Illyrida started to appear on the roads. Soon after, the BDI (Democratic party for integration), the former terrorist group that slaughtered civilians in 2001, now a political party, started threatening the government with new terrorist actions. On 8th October 2007, after an alarming intelligence report, the Macedonian special forces stormed the village Brodec, confiscating large amounts of rifles, heavy machine guns, anti-tank mines and RPGs. 4 terrorists were killed, and few policemen were lightly wounded. The BDI reacted right after...something about human rights, the forces should not shoot at armed 'civilians' pointing AKs at them funny, isn't it... And they started threatening again... Now unfortunately, I know very little about what's happening at this very moment as last night the BDI had some emergency party meeting. That should do it for now, although there is much I didn't say in this post regarding this whole situation.

Skipper, about the Greeks and the name issue...we can discuss that in some other topic, for now let's stick to Kosovo And yes, I know it's ridiculous, all part of the politics and manipulating history...but...yep...another time

 

Thanx Konigstiger!

I knew things were pretty complicated and seems they will be for a long time. Also according to history it seems to me several nations could refer to their ancient right to the Kosovo area or the neighbouring parts of it....

I was working in the UN forces in Skopje back in 1998, and I heard the Germans had bought quite alot of land in the south of Macedonia where new hotels around the mud fountains were planned to be built. Wonder if the Germans´plan has moved on?

 

Unfortunately things will stay complicated forever. The Balkan is one of the favorite playgrounds for the big players and their intelligence services. First, there is Istanbul, connecting Europe with the middle East, then there is Bosnia, the favorite European base for Osama's boys. And there is Kosovo, one pain-in-the-arse piece of land. Currently, only Serbia and the Kosovo Albanians argue over Kosovo, but there is also a Muslim minority in the south declaring themselves as Macedonians, called Goranci (the region itself is called Gora, gora = forest, forest people ). They do not play any role in the Serb-Albanian fight over the province though...

I haven't heard of any German hotels being built there...but rarely go out of Skopje, so the Germans might as well built nuke reactors in the south without me knowing about it :lol:

 

I just read this, I thought it would be appropriate to post it here

This George Gets it Right: Clooney to Organize Protest Against Unilateral Declaration of Kosovo Independence

Famous Hollywood actor, activist and campaigner George Clooney in a statement to the Frankfurt daily News announced he intends to organize a protest with his colleagues against the unilateral declaration of independence of Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija.
“With my coworker and friend Sharon Stone and her childhood friends of Serbian ancestry, I'll soon organize a protest against the attempts to grant independence to Kosovo,” the popular American actor said.
Clooney, who was among the first to support the Hollywood writers' protest and also backed the boycott of the Golden Globe awards ceremony, is well known as a fierce campaigner against any kind of injustice.
“I strive to use my popularity to help the mankind, to contribute to solving the number of problems afflicting today's world,” he said.

 

Interesting Konigstiger. I really appreciate your contribution to this topic. Those Prizren guys are dangerous. Are they a real political power or just a group of Albanian nationalists?
So is Macedonia called Macedonia now or is it still the Republic of Skopje?

 

Well, I'm not sure if I can explain this correctly. Many of the ordinary Albanians in Kosovo and Macedonia can be described merely as angry mobs or wolf packs (this may sound offensive to some Albanians, but that's the way it is, two of my cousins got beaten up by these wolf packs a couple of months ago. Reason: they couldn't speak Albanian...). Thing is, these groups are just a bloody nuisance The real problem are the political parties such as the BDI in Macedonia and the Democratic party of Kosovo, both former terrorist organizations. The parties are backed up by the mighty Albanian mafia which is actively operating in this region. They are mostly involved in illegal prostitution, smuggling drugs, weapons and stolen vehicles, which they then sell on the black market. Unfortunately, much of the Mafia's funds end up in the States, serving the Albanian lobby. This resulted in the terrorists' possession of US weapons including stinger missiles in the 2001 conflict. So, I would say yes, they are a real political power, and the street badass wolf packs are more of a local police problem.

It has never been called the Republic of Skopje. Yet another Greek proposal along with "Northern Macedonia" and "New Macedonia". It is called the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia in the UN (we should register in Guinness world records for this ), but many countries have recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name - Republic of Macedonia, including USA, UK, Russia, China, Canada, Turkey, Italy, Austria... Some desperate Greek moves are yet expected, especially after the US announced that we'll receive an invitation to join NATO in April.

 

Well at least you are officially recognized by most countries now. Wasn't Alexander the Great born in your country by the way?
Were your cousins beaten up by Albanians from Macedonia or was he in Albania when it happened? If he got beaten up in his own country it's even worse than I expected. So this confirms what I thought. The Kosovars and other Albanian minorities are not only manipulated by Albania but also by foreign funds from the Albanian diaspora/mafia, including weapons and illegal matters. Scary thought.

 

It is actually Alexander the one who causes the problems Greeks claim that he was Greek, however, the Ancient Macedonians were considered by the Ancient Greeks (especially Demosthenes) to be a barbarian non-Greek tribe. Filip, Alexander's father, conquered the Greeks, and when he was killed and his son took the throne, the superior Greek culture started influencing the Macedonian culture. Modern Greeks are using this as an argument to prove that Macedonia is a Greek land that is today populated by Slavs. On the contrary, a Spanish genetic research of 2001 reveals similarities between modern-day Macedonians and other Mediterranean people such as the Italians and the Cretans. Modern Greeks, however, bear the Subsaharan genes, relating them to Ethiopia... Uh...almost forgot your question...Alexander was born in Pella, the capital of Ancient Macedon. That region is part of Greece since the 1913 Bucharest treaty and remains under Greek rule to this day.

One of them was beaten up on a street... The other - in a bus. Both in Skopje. On December 30 2007, an old man of Macedonian ethnicity was shot in the head three times in the village of Arachinovo, near Skopje, today mostly populated by Albanians. Locals say he didn't have any debts or arguments with anyone. On January 3, one of the men that participated in the Brodec action (I mentioned it above) got shot to death while returning home from work. Two more were wounded. They revenge for everything. It is somewhat their motto...it's called blood revenge here, I don't know if it can be transcribed into English... I'm lucky enough to live in one of the safer parts of the city. Interestingly enough, the chances of getting beaten up are greater in Skopje than in Albania. Many of my friends go there on vacation, and are well treated by the Catholic Albanians. You can expect to have you car stolen though.

P.S. Skip, I see you are interested in Greek-Macedonian issues, if you want, I can open a thread about it.

 

Forgot to mention 2 things regarding this whole Kosovo mess:

1. Presidential elections are being held in Serbia today. One of these two candidates is expected to win:
- Boris Tadic, the current president
- Tomislav Nikolic, a member of the radical party

2. In the 2001 conflict (people just love this word, I like to call it war, however) 12 Macedonian civilians were kidnapped by the terrorists and were never seen again. After the war, an unmarked group grave was found near the village Neprosteno (translation of Neprosteno = Unforgiven ) but it was never confirmed that these were the missing civilians. It is one of the 4 cases of war crimes that are being returned to Macedonia from the Hague court these days. This could really cause some trouble to the former terrorists because the lawyer of the families of the kidnapped, who is also the leader of the far-right party TMRO ([SIZE=-1]Трајно Македонско Радикално Обединување - Permanent Macedonian Radical Unification, the abbreviation being similar to that of the Macedonian liberation movement a century ago) Vanco Shehtanski, announced today that he will demand detention for Ali Ahmeti (BDI's leader) as soon as the cases arrive... It will surely cause some adrenaline rush here...
[/SIZE]

 

It's sick that people get beaten up like that in their own country. I hope the yobs got caught and locked up. Sounds like Kosovo in contagious.

Sure I'd love to and I'm certain many others on the forum will love to learn more about the Balkans.

I've always been interested in this area as one cannot understand WWII (and WWI) without having read about the Balkans.



I'm watching the Serbian elections. One of the aspects is will Serbia lean towards the UE or stick to nationalism and get closer ties with Russia?

 

Ok, I'll open a thread, but I would like it to be more about WWII, since otherwise it will draw a lot of Greek fire and will be closed. I of course want to discuss with any Greek people on this forum in a civilized manner. (bad experience, don't ask )

Exactly. One more thing, if Nikolic wins, the Serbs will probably get a bit too nationalistic, which can have some consequences, it will probably cause the US and the EU to intervene yet again. I don't know what happened with those "Tsar Lazar's Guard" paramilitary Serb guys though...

 

January 20, 2008 21:44

Tomislav Nikolic has won 39,4% (1,6 million) and Boris Tadic 35,4% (1,44 million) of the votes in Serbia's presidential elections, estimates CESID.

I just translated few words from the Serbian Television website
I guess we'll have to wait for the second round in February.

 

Don't worry Konigstiger, fel free to open your thread and focuss on the WWII period. This is an enlightened forum and I have nothing against Greeks. It just wish them to live in peace with their neigbours.

 

This is a direct consequence of the Kosovo issue. Now Serbs are getting more radical which is neither good for Serbia and its neigbours, nor for The UE. It was to be expected. February you say. I wonder what will happen then.

 

Thank God... Just one question: Should I open it in the General Discussion forum or in the European Theater forum?

 

Yes, as I said before, Serbian paramilitaries in Kosovo are also preparing for action (probably this spring). Any destabilization of any kind would be disastrous for the whole region. The next round is on 2nd February. Not far...