Gun comments

Gun crime is also in very specific areas in US, mostly large cities. & despite the stricter gun laws in Britain, gun crime is on the rise there.

My unc used to have rifles in nearly 'any' public area in early 60's when they went hunting & visited restaraunts & such. nobody paid it any attn. & in the old west days, most everyone had guns in public & events like the OK Corral were rare & the vaunted gun duel on the street were not commonplace. It was only in 'very specific' areas, gambling towns with whiskey that was often of dubious quality.

 

I like to think of this as another "bucket safety" argument. In that case, the safety nuts (and yes, these people are insane) found out that in the US something between 5 and 8 small children fell into five gallon plastic buckets per year and drowned. The horror! The cried that something must be done about this horrible situation immediately!
Their solution was to force (note the word) the manufacturers to put two plastic crossed sticks in the top of the bucket so a child could not fall in. The bucket manufacturers responded that this would cost over $2.5 billion per year. The bucket users complained that in many cases they would have to modify their production processes to the tune of another $20 billion because the sticks would get in the way of their current processes. End users pointed out that without specific laws prohibiting the removal of the sticks there was no way (even with laws) to ensure people did not remove them. So, for a mere $3 billion dollars a child the safety nuts might save as many as eight lives.
In the end saner minds prevaled and now buckets have a useless label on the side warning users that a child might fall in the bucket and drown. Of course, today 5 to 8 kids fall in buckets and drown. How 'bout pushing for personal responsibility instead safety nuts??!!! HUH??!!

Basically, the same argument applies to guns. It applies to airbags in cars. It applies to anything where a group of people want government to force itself into areas of personal responsibility. As I have come to believe, these safety nut types are so afraid to die they never learn to live. In their world of fear of death they go to the government and try and force everyone else to live there too. It is just pathetic.

 

Yes & how about those evil bathtubs?

http://www.cornellaging.org/gem/research_bathing_magnitude.html

According to the National Safety Council, one person dies everyday from using bathtub/shower in the United States.

By god when is something going to be done about these? Perhaps restricting how many can be made per year, & prescreening for those who should want to operate such a monstrous device.

 

That reminds me of the first Gomer Pyle show to air, where Sgt. Carter puts a bucket over Gomer's head so he can think more clearly.

Works for me !

 

Live in Burbank Choc. It's I suppose all good fun to make fun of mormons, but when I was a kid in Salt Lake city we never locked a thing, cars, house, nothing.I went trick or treating with no parents til after dark at age 6. Most households had guns as well. I grew up mainly in so cal.

Perhaps swimming at the beach should be outlawed so people won't drown or be eaten by sharks.

Many people commit suicide from relationship breakups, should relationships be regulated?

 

Chrome I gave above the statistics about guns ownership in Switezrland and gun crime relative to the population, with a comparison with France ansd USA.

If you can count : no more guns per home in switezerland than france, no more casualties, less than in usa less casualties.

Switzerland : 27% of homes have a gun
France : 22% of homes have a gun
USA : 41% of homes have a gun.

Source : Gun regulation and Canad in the international context survey – Public Health Agency of Canada : http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cdic-mcc/19-1/d_f.html

I'd like to compare with the figures upon which the "authors" you name have based themselves to compare USA and Switzerland.

So far, unless you got other reliable stats on the subject, the theory you mentioned about Switzerland is either WRONG or LIARS.

And please, tell me when I did made fun of the Mormons ? I said they were peacefull – end of the story.

@ TAG : Before allowing someone to carry a gun, the questions I'd ask would be :

- do you know the difference between a gun and a bucket ? (mandatory answer – take this as an IQ test )

- are you able to hold your gun, or do you lack the basic wise for this, and will your gun be stolen like the QUARTER MILLION OF LEGAL GUNS THAT ARE STOLEN EACH YEAR ?

- why must you have a licence to drive ? why are there speed limits ?

- Why Northern Korea is denied to right to develop WMD to deter agressions and protect itself ROFL

I believe people carry guns because they are scared shitless, if US citizen did not feel so insecure, they would not feel the need to carry a gun.

Of course there is probably the "wild wild west macho factor", the feel of power "gotta big shiny steel pee wee spitting lead factor" as explanations, but I believe only a small minority is in this case.

I mean : sleeping with the loaded gun right next to the bed means you are scared.

My proposal :

* You should be allowed to OWN a sporting gun (small caliber precision) or a hunting rifle.

* Semi automatic and automatic guns would be illegal, same for handguns (except target shooting / sporting handguns). (Com'on, what the hell you are supposed to do with a Mac 10 or Uzi, apart from drive by shooting ? )
If you are caught with an illegal gun,the punishment should be hard, especialy if you have a criminal record. This is for helping police cleaning the streets.

* You should be allowed to CARRY the above guns to the place where you sport (shooting club) or hunt, as long as they are unloaded and carried into a locked box in the process (I believe most people already do this).

* This would allow you to protect your home (in France, if you shoot someone who broke in your house, you are presumed in a self defense context, the justice has to prove it wasn't the case if they want to charge you for murder).

[ 22. January 2007, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: chocapic ]

 

This would allow you to protect your home from whom ? Street criminals, maybe. From foreign invaders or traitorous government, no! I believe a population should have sufficient armaments too defend themselves from any level of personnel weapons, and even including citizens groups [read as organized militias] trained with mortars, anti-tank and anti-air missiles.

I agree that not everyone should have the right too bear arms [convicted of serious crimes, mental retardation or emotionally unstable or recreational substance abuser], but those who do have the right, need to be well armed.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

If you fear an invasion of USA, or USA government turning against American people (com'on, the Patriot Act was not that bad ) it's true that hunting or sporting weapons would not be enough to wage a war in the homeland.

But this is a really scary perspective, do you feel seriously threatened in the above domain ?

 

In light of what the US govt is doing [fighting wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq without a formal declaration of war], and what it is talking about doing [starting two additional undeclared wars in N Korea and Iran, and possibly Libya, as well], as well as domestically, then yes, I do feel that I need to be able to have 'bigger and better' armament.

Did you ever see the helicopter footage at Waco? Where the news media were told they couldn't film the compound from behind? Interesting film. Wish I had a copy to post here.

Or the helicopter footage at Oklahoma City? Another piece of interesting film. And again, I wish I had a copy.

Gun control laws do only two things. Restrict weaponry to the law-abiding, and weaken a populations ability to defend themselves and their freedoms. In these days, not a good thing.

 

This would allow you to protect your home from whom ? Street criminals, maybe. From foreign invaders or traitorous government, no! I believe a population should have sufficient armaments too defend themselves from any level of personnel weapons, and even including citizens groups [read as organized militias] trained with mortars, anti-tank and anti-air missiles </font>[/QUOTE]The problem being of course that someone has to decide what constitutes an organised militia, the only people in a position to do that are the government and if part of your aim is to defend gainst potenally dangerous governments it all becomes rather pointless to have a government sanctioned militia.

 

Lets work on the reading choc. Much higher gun ownership per capita than US, & much less gun crime. If all men with a few medical exceptions are required to participate in military service, then 27% couldn't even be close.


All Swiss men, with the exception of those with medical exemptions, serve in the army between the ages of 20 and 42 (52 for higher ranking officers). This compulsory military service is based on the traditional concept of the citizen-soldier. Women can join the army on a volunteer basis.

Members of the Swiss army keep their weapons

 

Your data is incorrect choc, come to grips with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Number of guns in circulation
In some 2001 statistics[3], it is noted that there are about 420,000 assault rifles stored at private homes, mostly SIG 550 types. Additionally, there are some 320,000 assault rifles and military pistols exempted from military service in private possession, all selective-fire weapons having been converted to semi-automatic operation only. In addition, there are several hundred thousand other semi-automatic small arms classified as carbines. The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million; more liberal estimates put the number at 3 million.


& US government already has turned on its own people with income tax & several other unconstitutional measures, Patriot act just one of many. Protecting ones family is the more salient point here in the here & now. My sister had a gun pulled on her by a gang member, she screamed at him & he ran off & chickened out. Still a very serious situation. The left is succeeding at elimination of right to carry laws which benefits who? her or the gang member?

 

I have to respectfully disagree that 'the only people in a position to do that are the govt'. Or at least, the federal govt.

Don't get me wrong, I love the good ole USA but we have allot of problems in our country, and govt corruption has to be at the top of the list. If we had an honest govt, it would take one look at where we are at crime wise, and be opening up all sorts firearms training classes all across the country. A well armed, knowledgeable populace [along with community spirit & backed by a just govt], would go a great ways towards reducing crime in the USA.

In the USA today, we have substituted 'law for profit' for justice. We have allowed 'accused rights' and bureaucratic bungling too overshadow guilt and the punishment thereof.

Again, if you pass laws about caring weapons [not just guns], the only people you can be sure will not carry weapons are those who obey the laws. Those who are breaking the law [the criminals], are not going to suddenly say, "oh wait, I'm going to rob/rape/kill, but I'll obey the weapon laws". You see my point? Even in nations where firearms are less available than the USA, other weapons will fill in.

 

Chrome, it's really useless arguing with someone from another culture/country/etc.
Personally,I could care less what they think or say. Like I've mentioned somewhere before,I "came across" 2 WWII semi-auto handguns from my Grandpa.
Nope, don't have to register them,tell anyone,hand them over cause they're 'illegal'.My brother-in-law has a WWII Brit Sten,you don't think he's registering that do you? That's what the 2nd amendment is about.

 

Perhaps we should remember that Chromeboomerang started the argument in the first place....

 

Perhaps the difference in gun ownership mentality in Switzerland is a cultural thing; remember they haven't physically been in a war for 500 years, and even then they led the world in development of pike formations.
Nothing against Americans (or Freemasons either), but the ideals of liberty Americans treat like the Holy Grail were fine for 1776. With few exceptions, they are naive now to the point of being useless.

 

I didn't start an argument, I just put up some comments on the subject, the arguing was done by others. & the Swiss gun figures are not limited to military issue arms.

http://www.geocities.com/libertarianrev/art.swissarms.html

Virtually every home has a gun.


Besides subsidized military surplus, the Swiss can buy other firearms easily too. While long guns require no special purchase procedures, handguns are sold only to those with a Waffenerwerbsschien (purchase certificate) issued by a cantonal authority. A certificate is issued to every applicant over 18 who is not a criminal or mentally infirm.


There are no restrictions on the carrying of long guns. About half the cantons have strict permit procedures for carrying handguns, and the other half have no rules at all There is no discernible difference in the crime rate between the cantons as a result of the different policies. Thanks to a lawsuit brought by the Swiss gun lobby, semi-automatic rifles require no purchase permit and are not registered by the government.