Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Gunboats and Monitors

Discussion in 'Other Weapons' started by JCFalkenbergIII, Jul 12, 2008.

  1. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    Thanks Falcon!!!! I was reading about Q Boats and saw the OSP mentioned. It also stated that they used some other armed small craft. Do you know anything about that?
     
  2. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    I had found this,

    "The Off-Shore Patrol
    The Navy was reborn with the creation of the Off-Shore Patrol (OSP) on 14 April 1938. A few patrol crafts and three high-speed torpedo boats, also known as Q-boats, were the pioneers of this force. They were intended to form part of a nucleus of 55 Q-boats that would repel enemy amphibious landings as Gen Douglas McArthur had envisioned. But before the acquisition of more Q-boats, war had broken out. As a consequence, the OSP was relegated to other roles such as; troop insertions, intelligence operations and ferry missions. Though they had a few skirmishes with Japanese Navy ships and warplanes, after the fall of Bataan on 08 April 1942, all ships of the OSP had to be scuttled. (Giagonia 1997, 147) "

    The Trillanes Papers

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    21
    MacArthur, with Eisenhower and Ord, drew up Commonwealth Act No. 1 which became law on 21 Dec 1935. The naval portion of the plan called for fifty MTBs in service by 1946. The process of getting boats from the US was slow and expensive, so Mac looked to Thornycroft who began building the first two boats on 15 Apr 38.
    The first boat, a 55ft Thornycroft with yard number 2417, ran trials under the name Q I, but was later designated Abra and Q 112. The second boat, a 65-footer with yard number 2418, started as Q III but became Luzon and Q 111. A third boat was built in the Philippines with Thornycroft engines and Thornycroft assistance, the 55ft Agusan Q 113. Friedman mentions all of these but fumbles some details (including the names).
    eight more boats were ordered, but all ended up in RN service.
    Two other small craft were Baler (Q 114) and Danday Q (115).
     
  4. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    Thanks Tiornu. I noticed in the pic of the Q Boats that there were not any torpedo tubes mounted. Were they just gun boats or were they added later?
     
  5. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    [​IMG]
    CINDERELLA SHIPS
    by Lt 'Ossie' T. Dodwell RNVR


    In Britain's vain attempt to check the Fuhrer's mighty host
    Destroyers did heroic work on Norway's icy coast
    They served both at the landing and at the evacuation,
    But, dammit, so did trawlers, the destroyers' poor relation.

    And on the shores of Dunkirk, midst the rain of shot and shell
    The Navy did a sturdy job, both valiantly and well.
    By stirring deeds destroyers earned the plaudits of the Nation
    But, dammit, so did trawlers, the destroyers' poor relation.

    Then from the bloody coast of Crete to Iceland's Arctic Waste
    Destroyers grimly battled on wherever challenge faced,
    Chancing any kind of odds, facing annihilation.
    But, dammit, so did trawlers, the destroyers' poor relation.

    And so the war moved westwards; took our cousins unaware,
    They found they had not got enough destroyers 'over there'
    At first to guard their convoys the destroyers weren't in station
    But, dammit, there WERE trawlers, the destroyers' poor relation.



    The author of this poem 'Ossie' T. Dodwell was the First Lieutenant of HMS Loman, a converted armed trawler not unlike the many hundreds of such vessels used by the Royal Navy in WW2 for minesweeping and anti-submarine work under the requisitioning programme.

    These hastily armed fishing vessels were crewed by Royal Naval Patrol Service personnel. Many of these men had been peacetime fishermen and were expert sailors. Later in the war the majority of crews were made up of ‘hostility only’ ratings.

    Royal Navy trawlers served in every theatre of the war from the Arctic to the Far East. The last attack to be made on a U-boat during WW2 was carried out off Iceland by armed trawler HMS Northern Sky, just one day before Germany surrendered. The last Royal Naval ship to be sunk by a U-boat in the war was HM trawler Ebor Wyke on the 2nd of May 1945 leaving only one survivor.

    Their efforts largely missed out of the history books, armed trawlers obviously lacked the distinction of larger ships such as cruisers or destroyers and maybe this is why they are easily forgotten in the records relating to the Royal Naval Fleet in WW2.

    Forgotten even in war it seems, when back in December 1942, 'Ossie' T. Dodwell wrote this poem for inclusion with the Christmas cards mailed from HMS Loman staioned on the East Coast of the USA protecting convoys from U-boat attacks.

    WW2 - The Second World War: The Forgotten Fleet
     
  6. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    21
    All three MTBs had two torpedoes. The large one had no torpedo tubes; I don't know about the other pair. The standard 55ft CMB of WWI had no torpedo tubes. We have the mental picture of MTBs with torpedo tubes or racks, but that was an interwar development. All those Soviet G-5's of WWII went without tubes. The original system was a stern trough that dumped the torpedo into the water behind the boat. You can make your own list of the many reasons why this was a bad idea. It may explain why the later Philippine MTB orders were nominally to replace some of the earlier ones.
     
  7. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    Thanks again Tiornu. Always something new :).
     
  8. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    German armed fishing boats. I love the camo :).
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    21
    Yeah, it looks just like a Tripod logo.
    Doh!
     
  10. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    LOL Hold on Ill try to fix .
     
  11. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    21
    Wait. Here we go.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    OK I fixed :).
     
  13. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    Another
     

    Attached Files:

  14. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    [​IMG]

    An 83-foot Coast Guard patrol boat guards a landing craft from German submarine attack in the English Channel off Normandy, France.
     
  15. justdags

    justdags Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    1
    what are the size restrictions of a gun boat or monitor class of ship?
     
  16. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    I have seen all sizes and types that have been called a "Gun Boat" so im not sure if there is any restrictions. As for a Monitor Tiornu may know better :).
     
  17. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    21
    The Poles had some river monitors of under 100 tons.
     
  18. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    So what's the difference and qualifications to be considered a "Monitor" Tiornu? And between a "River" or "Coastal" type? Is it tonnage or armament?
     
  19. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    21
    As far as I can tell, a monitor is a vessel that the navy has categorized as a monitor, and a gunboat is one categorized as a gunboat. Helpful, huh? I suppose you're more likely to see open or shielded gun mounts on a gunboat.
     
  20. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    10,480
    Likes Received:
    426
    LOL. Well here is a Wiki description which is just as helpful :confused:.

    "A monitor was a type of relatively small warship which was neither fast nor strongly armoured but carried disproportionately large guns and was used by some navies from the 1860s until the end of the Second World War. The monitors of the 19th century were turreted ironclad warships inspired by the original USS Monitor; as well as coastal ships which closely followed her design, the term 'monitor' also encompassed more flexible breastwork monitors, and was sometimes used as a generic term for any turreted ship. The term 'monitor' also represents the strongest of riverine warcraft, as river monitors. In the 20th century the term 'monitor' was revived for shallow-draft armoured shore bombardment vessels, particularly those of the British Royal Navy: the Lord Clive class monitors carried guns firing heavier shells than any other warship ever has."

    And for a "Gun Boat",

    A gunboat is literally a boat carrying one or more guns. The term is rather broad, and the usual connotation has changed over the years (sometimes encompassing vessels which would otherwise be considered ships).
     

Share This Page