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Hatten and Rittershoffen January 1945

Discussion in 'Western Europe 1943 - 1945' started by Kai-Petri, Dec 13, 2002.

  1. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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  2. davealex

    davealex New Member

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    Nordwind, thanks for that link. Nice write-up and pics on Hatten & Rittershoffen that I had not seen before.
    Dave A.
     
  3. sbstewart

    sbstewart New Member

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    I'm new to this forum, and found it as I am interested in the pieces that mention the 3d Bn, 313th Inf, in which my father was a 2d Lt mortar forward observer. I am looking for information on their battle in and around Oberroedern. All he ever mentioned was that he woke up one night, and found that a panzer unit had parked all around where his 3 man team were sleeping. They had no idea there were any Germans close to them. Fortunately the panzers pulled out to attack before dawn, when dad would have been discovered. John Porter (grandson of Lt Col Porter, CO, 3/313) mentioned the following to me in an email several years ago:
    "My grandfather either through threat or bribery was able to get his hands on seven or eight additional .50 cal's to supplement the normal amount the battalion was issued. He knew what they were up against, (21st Panzer Division, infantry plus that infantry units armored vehicles), in the end the 3rd Battalion virtually wiped out the infantry division against a 3 to 1 man disadvantage. My grandfather said after the battle was over, you could walk across the field the German's used to attack never set foot on dirt due to all the dead Germans."
    Perhaps this explains why the attack was redirected toward Hatten.
     
  4. Alsa.se

    Alsa.se Member

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    I am surprised. I have never heard of Oberroedern, about the US position. Oborroedern always been in the hands of the Germans. There might be something I do not know ? I share this view, after the battle, it had to step over the bodies. My mother lived those scenes in the streets of the village (Hatten)

    Oups, sorry, I just realizing. I confused Oberroedern and Niederroedern ... I apologize.
     
  5. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    Hello everyone
    I wasn´t here for awhile. Sorry! First I want to say a warm THANK YOU! to everyone who shared documents of the battle of Hatten/Rittershoffen here. During the last month I´ve collected several new documents of german iwhich were involved in what happened between 01st of january 45 till end of january 45. Some of them were ordered by NARA but I haven´t got them already. I have to split to buy these documents cause it´s getting a littlebit expensive to buy them by NARA (but here in Germany these documents were more expensive :-( )
    I will try to write a detailed report of what happened on the german side by reflecting what I already get to know by the american documents. I will do this for my grandpa who´s missing in action by the battle of Hatten/Rittershoffen. First I wll post some current pics of Hatten/Rittershoffen.
     
  6. Natman

    Natman Member

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  7. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    I downloaded it just fine, Steve (a treasure from EPL, I perceive). Only had the document and a download button. Didn't see your homepage, so maybe you see it because you ar logged in to your Dropbox.
     
  8. Natman

    Natman Member

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    Thanks for the update, Tom. I was hoping my post would entice Nordwind, Alsa.se and Earthican back to this thread. So far, it's not working!!
     
  9. Alsa.se

    Alsa.se Member

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    :waving: I'm here ...I found this topic very quiet too !
    Well, thank you for your link. I get there easily.
    It is a pleasure to see this kind of report. In one of the drawings, I see the street where my mother lived in January 1945 (Hatten)
    It's almost unreal !
     
  10. Natman

    Natman Member

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  11. shinglehouse

    shinglehouse New Member

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    If you go to the Docs and Videos section on the 47th's website there is a 1.5 hour long video with footage in Rittershoffen among other places, that is where the photos came from. I just captured some frames to use on the website.
     
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  12. Alsa.se

    Alsa.se Member

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    Thousand thanks to have share this ! It's a treasure.
     
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  13. Alsa.se

    Alsa.se Member

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    Yes. These are great pictures, I did'nt know.
     
  14. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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  15. Nordwind511

    Nordwind511 Member

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    Hello everyone-

    is someone able to download this book as pdf? Look here: http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uiug.30112055142357

    Although I found some mistakes when he wrote about the 21st armored division and their activities at beginning of Nordwind but to make a complete construction of what happened during the time 31st of december 1944 till 20th of january it seemed to be a really interesting book.

    If so, leave me a message please. Thx
     
  16. Natman

    Natman Member

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  17. danielponiallain

    danielponiallain recruit

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    Dear Earthican:
    Could You tell me where You posted the "Paradigm-Shift" Map of the Battle of Herrlisheim from January 16-25, 1945 when the Re-Equipped German 10th SS Panzer Division attacked out of the Gambsheim Bridgehead on 4-6 German Pontoon Bridges and Heavy Ferries the Germans call "Siebel Ferries" because even "Riviera to The Rhine" by Dr. Jeffrey Clarke thought the 10th SS Panzer Division and 7th Parachute Division (-20th Parachute Regiment committed to Hatten and Rittershoffen and the 653rd Heavy Tank Destoyer Battalion with the Jagdtigers struck Sessenheim) had attacked south from Lauterbourg on the "West Bank of the Upper Rhine River" on the Night of January 15-16, 1945 until They read "In the Firestorm of the Last Years of The War" by Wilhelm Tieke and found out only the 1st Battalion of the 10th SS Panzer Regiment of Panzer Mark IV's came South from Lauterbourg and I'm looking for the Map or Maps You posted somewhere that, in fact, alsmost the entire German 10th SS Panzer Division 2 Regiments of Panzer Grenadiers and the 2nd Battalion of the 10th SS Panzer Regiment of Panzer Mark V's with 2 Parachute Regiments of the German 7th Parachute Division attacked across the Upper Rhine River into the "Gambsheim Bridgehead" that same night on German Military Bridges and Pontoon and smashed Violently into the U.S 12th Armored Division and Elements of the 314th Infantry Regiment and 232nd Regiment?
    No One knew this! Are You sure that the German 7th Parachute Division attacked out of the Gambsheim Bridgehead with It's 19th and 21st Parachute Regiments on those German Military Bridges and Heavy Ferries and what's the Source? Also, where did You post that Map of basically the Huge Tank Battle of Herrlisheim from January 16-25, 1945? Your Maps on Operation Nordwind are "One of a Kind" and a "Paradigm Shift on Our Knowledge of of the German 15 Division Counter-Offensive 'Operation Nordwind'"! Sincerely, Daniel P. Kneeland, Grafton, Ma.

    P.S My Father, James F. Kneeland, survived the Nightmarish and Terrifying Battle of Rittershoffen (or German for "Knights-hope") from January 11-20, 1945 serving in the 2nd Squad, 2nd Platoon of the Company B of the 68th Armored Infantry Battalion of the Combat Command A of the U.S 14th Armored Division where Company B went into the Battle of Rittershoffen at nearly Full Strength of 235 Soldiers and came out with 83. Thanks again, Dan
     
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  18. Trish

    Trish New Member

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    My relative lost his life on jan 15th 1945 during this battle. He was in the 315th infantry regiment 79th infantry division. He is still listed as missing in action, though presumed kia
     
  19. danielponiallain

    danielponiallain recruit

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    Hatten and Rittershoffen Researchers:
    Earthican is correct in that 90% of the Re-Equipped German 10th SS Panzer Division crossed into the Gambsheim Bridgehead beginning on the Night of January 15-16, 1945 on the Heavy Ferries and 6 Bridges the German Engineers contructed across the Upper Rhine River, Northwest of Gambsheim ranging from 8 Tons to 70 tons with It's 2 Panzer Grenadier Regiments and It's Panther Battalion and It's Artillery and that only It's 1st Battalion of Mark IV Tanks attacked South from Lauterbourg but Is Earthican positive that the 2 Regiments of the German 7th Parachute Division didn't also attack south from Lauterbourg to give Infantry Support of the 19th Parachute Regiment to the German 653rd Heavy Tank Destroyer Battalion (Jagdtigers or Tiger III's as their sometimes called) when They attacked Sessenheim and the 21st Parachute Regiment to give Infantry Support to the 1st Battalion of the German 10th SS Panzer Regiment in their attack on Drusenheim?
    Dr. Jeffrey J. Clarke, Author of "Riviera to the Rhine" described the Nightmarish and Terrifying Assault by the German 10th SS Panzer Division and the 7th Parachute Division out of the "Gambsheim Bridgehead" and "South from Lauterbourg almost totally wrong. It was a "Classic German Pincers Attack".
    He has the 2 German Parachute Regiments of the German 7th Parachute not attacking into Hatten and Rittershoffen which was the 20th Parachute Regiment on the Night of January 13-14 to support the massive German Co-Ordinated Night Assault that same night employing Tanks, Flamethrower Tanks, Panzer Grenadier and Paratroopers with the "smooth edged helmuts" that the Soldiers of the U.S 79th Infantry and 14th Armored Division quickly recognized as "German Paratroopers"; attacking with the 10th SS Panzer Division out of the Gambsheim Bridgehead 2 Nights later, on January 15-16, 1945 but I can't confirm that in Tieke's "In the Firestorm of the Last Years of the War" or Stenger's "Panzers East and West".
    What German Infantry Support would the 653rd Jagdtiger Battalion and 1st Battalion of the 10th SS Panzer Regiment have as they attacked south from Lauterbourg on the Night of January 15-16, 1945?
    The 616th Division Raessler was a Static German Formation in the Bienwald Forest and not a Professional German Infantry, Panzer-Grenadier or Paratrooper capable of supporting these 2 Elite German Armored Formations.
    I need a "Source" to confirm that the Re-Equipped German 7th Parachute Division's 19th and 21st Parachute Regiments attacked out of the Gambsheim Bridgehead instead of south from Lauterbourg on the Night of January 15-16, 1945?
    Please inform.
    Thank You. Daniel Kneeland, Grafton, Ma. U.S.A
     
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  20. Alsa.se

    Alsa.se Member

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    Hi Dan,

    I found this. There is no indication as to the date of the 15th to the 16th of January, but an indication that Regiment 19 was in the Sessenheim, Dalhunden, Drusenheim sector from the 12th of January. So, not at all in the Lauterbourg area :

    upload_2019-4-7_10-11-44.png

    Translation : "On 3 January 1945, the 7th Paratroopers Division was released from the front at Venlo and moved by rail to the area south of Weissenburg in Alsace, to close there caused by a deep slump of the 7th US Army frontal gap. In the area around Hagenau, at Hatten, in Hagenauer Forst, at Schweighausen, Sessenheim, Dahlhunden and Drusenheim, the division was in heavy defensive combat from 12 January 1945"

    Here the link : Lexikon der Wehrmacht - Fallschirm-Jäger-Regiment 19
     

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