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Heinrich Severloh The beast of Omaha

Discussion in 'Omaha Beach' started by Jim, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    So, according to you, there is no 3-position gas regulator on the M240. Do I have that correct. I want to be really, really sure about you statement here.

    Also, the M240 is in no way, shape, or for capable of firing 950 rounds per minute, and is limited to 400 rounds per minute. Again, I want to be really, really sure about you statement here.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  2. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Takao is correct. The M240 Golf does have a maximum cyclic rate of fire of 950 rounds per minute and it has three gas port settings to regulate the rate of fire; 650-750 rpm with position 1, 750-850 rpm with position 2, and 850-950 using position three. It is also important to note that position three is seldom used for the higher rpm, but is often used when the weapon is fowled in order to increase gas pressure and allow the weapon to continue functioning properly at the two lower settings.
    All first class militaries do train their gunners to fire in bursts, and did so during WWII as well, it is not for the reason you stated, but to modulate rate of fire, minimize ammunition use, more effective ammunition use and most importantly allow for barrel cooling.
    If you actually look at the cyclig rate figures for a M1917 Browning watercooled and an MG 42 your rates of fire are appear to be wide apart (600 vs. 1200 rpm) but in reality their usable rates are not. Theoretical vs. actual are two different things. The M1917A1 had a max ROF of 600 rounds per minute and because it was water-cooled could fire continuously as long as ammunition and water were available. The MG42 had a cyclic rate of 1200 rpm, but the barrel had to be changed every 250 rounds (for cooling) you could probably push that to 300 rounds short term, but you're asking for a "cook-off" and if you've ever had a round fire with the bolt out of battery it can be anything from just scary to catastrophic. So if you fired the MG42 cyclic for 250 rounds (20 rounds per second) you'd reach you first barrel change in 12.5 seconds. 30 seconds for barrel change then cyclic another 12.5 seconds. We're now at 55 seconds and 500 rounds, we'd be 5 seconds into a third barrel change when the minute was up.
    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the MG42, it was a great gun, but focussing on the ROF misses a lot of it's better attributes.
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    From what I've read over in SWA even though US soldiers were taught and by doctrine suppose to fire short burst with their mgs they often ended up firing single shots. Now the US may be a bit more cavalier towards it's doctrine than the Germans were/are but still just because something is doctrine doesn't mean it's going to happen all the time. Given the German logistical situation in the latter half of the war they were short a fair amount of things that by doctrine they were suppose to have. Insisting that because it was doctrine that it was available is an indicator of a number of issues I won't go into detail on here.
     
  4. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    No he is not!! Keep to the point! Takao originally stated, and I quote "Most modern machineguns can come to the MG42's standard 1200" (Actually a MG42 that fired at the rate of 1200 rpm would be considered "slow" by the Germans.) therefore, by his own words, he has gotten his ears BOXED again! Please note that you note, and I fully agree, that the M240, fires at approximately the same rate as the WW2 German MG34, because that is about the perfect rate for enemy personnel reduction. Remember what that old ex Wehrmacht man told me, "No MG42! Too fast! Run out of bullets before you run out of Russians!" Also, one other point, Takao has not answered my second question to him, concerning how to reduce the rpm of the MG42 from 1200 to 900. Since the both of you are getting your info from books or the web, instead of actually knowing anything. Do a good job of looking it up, find the right answer and Takao will not have get another drubbing. One other thing. Here is Takao's head, please return it to him. He needs to put some bandages on it.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  5. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    Finally a sensible answer. There is a lot of information that can be exchanged by polite conversation.
     
  6. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Yes siree bob...Shooterike is in full meltdown. I've not seen a meltdown this bad since Robdab/Dabrob.
     
  8. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Yes, USMCPrice,

    Shooterike fully agrees that the M240 has the same rate of fire as the MG-34 with his previous statement of
    Because in his fantasy math world, 450=900.
     
  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Nah, Trump is far more intelligent...He can form coherent sentences.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I think Frothy mouth is under the misguided belief that the M240 reduces it's fire, as the MG-42 does, by changing to a heavier bolt...

    Sorry Frothy Mouth, but this is neither a hand with a trigger finger, nor a heavier bolt.
    [​IMG]

    I am beginning to think that Shooterike has never fired a gun before, much less know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of...

    As to the ex-Wehrmacht man he "talked to"...His name was Klaus...Santa Klaus.

    I also note that Shooterike has not posted any of the rpms of modern machine guns like I asked him to.

    Finally, Shooterike mistakenly believes that he is somehow beating us up...However, all he really has been doing is
     
  11. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    TRUMP IS TRUMP, POTUS USA
    Shooterike is Shooterike, not POTUS USA
     
  12. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    I make no mistake, YOU on the other hand,are stupid enough to believe that you are coming off looking slightly better than an idiot. The other TROLLS might have IQs that are low enough to believe you. But I doubt it. They may prove me wrong and do the stupid.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  13. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    As usual, you are wrong...Why am I not surprised...It is a 3 position gas regulator plug.

    Say it with me class...3 position gas regulator plug.

    So class, as you can plainly see, even you Shooterike, sitting all by himself in the corner wearing the Dunce Cap, it is not a M240 bolt.

    This one is specifically for the Dunce, Shooterike...
    These are M240 bolts. The top one has been demiled.
    [​IMG]

    And Shooterike wonders why no one is paying attention to his FACTS.
     
  14. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Does anyone remember that one fellow going at it with me over a cut-down MG34 or MG42 for Finnish ski troopers about a year ago? Among other things he claimed to be an authority on machine guns but had a questionable grasp of the topic, and also offered to sell a homebrew MG42 type weapon to me. IIRC, he was banned shortly after. I'm beginning to have a strong case of deja-vu...
     
  15. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    I put the applicable statement above in italics and underlined it so you wouldn't miss it; remember Takao said MODERN, the basic M60 is fairly old and the M-240 is the standard US GPMG. It fires up to, depending upon GAS PORT SETTING, 950 rounds per minute cyclic, not too different from the MG42 and comparable to the MG34 (900 rpm). You were also incorrect as to the M60's ROF by about 30%, it is actually 650 RPM, not as you stated 450 RPM. The US Navy does still use a modification of the M60, the Mk.43/Mod 1 for it's special warfare units, as it is several pounds lighter than the M-240B or G. However, interestingly enough, the Danish military in 2014 started replacing their 1,200 rpm M/62 machine guns (Danish designation for MG 42/59 version of the MG3) with the 550 rpm M60E6 because it's more accurate and more controllable. Even the German military is in the process of replacing it's MG3's with HK-121's (German designation MG5) with an adjustable ROF of 640-720-800 rounds per minute. Guess what you're wrong again;
    "MG3, which fires at the REDUCED rate of 900 rounds per minute or the same as an MG34" ; in it's standard configuration the MG3 has a cyclic rate of 1,200 rpm not 900.

    Now Takao also mentioned the M249, 5.56 NATO LMG (actual designation Squad Automatic Weapon, but it is a machine gun). The currently deployed version has a cyclic rate of 800 rounds per minute, similar to the other modern machine guns mentioned. However, before you celebrate, it was derived from the FN Minimi which did have an 1,150 rpm cyclic rate (not far from his stated 1,200 rpm). The M249 was specifically modified down to the 800 rpm range. Note any pattern here M240, M5/HK-121, M249, and yes MG34?

    I won't answer for Takao as I do not know his background. As for me I did learn my machine gun knowledge from books, FM's field manuals, and classroom instruction, and field instruction and real world experience. You see I was an 0331 machinegunner in the Marine Corps for 8 years 9 months. I even taught machine gunnery at SOI East for a short time before I got out. I've shot at targets, I've shot at vehicles, I've shot at men, and not on a 100 meter target range. I've engaged targets out to 12-1300 meters. You actually need to know how to shoot at extended ranges, at 100 meters, as I said at the beginning of this thread, you're basically shooting point blank and lack of distance masks lack of precision. Then I had four more years teaching crew served weapons, from all nations, to indigenous personnel, and advising them during their operations, all over the world as my secondary MOS was Weapons, during 4 more years in the US Army.
     
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  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Ahhhh Shooterike, you cannot even identify the basic parts of an M240, and yet, you somehow believe that you did not make a mistake...

    When you get older, maybe you will come to realize how big a mistake you made.
     
  17. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    You mean deja-poo...The feeling that you have been through this crap before.
     
  18. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    If this weapon was so accurate and so good, why didn't the Germans win WW2? Based on your math, though should have killed about 1.5 Billion People when using such an accurate firing weapon while under fire, irregardless of the firing arc that it could cover.

    Simple logic states a few things:

    1. When under fire, accuracy drops exponentially. Its pretty hard to focus on individual targets while you've got a lot of incoming fire while witness to your friends being killed. Exposing yourself for any length of time to act as a 'sniper' at each target gives you a pretty short lifespan.

    2. German forces employed more than one Machine Gun at Omaha. There were other weapons and Artillery firing. Ergo, all casualties on the beach can not be contributed to one man.

    3. Range of weapon and landscape also determine that only a small % of troops on Omaha could be subjected to the fire from one machine gun. Unless the bodies were stacked dozens high in the small firing arc covered by his MG, it is impossible for him to claim all of those kills/wounded.

    In short, this thread has gone off the deep end in a very big way and clearly the OP will not be swayed either way. Perhaps its time for the loony bin for him since basic logic does not seem to exist within the muddled confines of his brain.

    The math does not end up. I will add a picture if you need some visual evidence of how one MG cannot claim 2000 casualties on Omaha.
     
  19. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Well, to be truthful, Shooterike was not the OP, IIRC, he was the 10th. Your first 3 points are why most of the rest of us disagreed with Shooterike, of which Sheldrake was the first one to respond. At which point Shooterike, in post #12 responded with an insult. That was when the rollercoaster ride began.

    The picture thing, and maps, have already been done...It made a whoosing noise high over Shooterike's head as he was unable to comprehend their meanings. He just kept prattling on about hitting soda cans at 100 meters.

    The math has never added up, even when I first heard about this myth.


    Hard to imagine that this thread began life with only two posts and then died.
     
  20. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I've been thinking about this...

    Trump has nowhere near Shooterike's personality, but you know who does?


    Captain Philip Francis Queeg!

    Just switch strawberries with MG-34 or MG-42...Bingo, exact match.
     
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