HELP! Kursk OOBs

I worship at the feet of T.A. Gardner,

Thanks guys. I have spoken to the editor in cheif and he says he will sort you guys a free issue or two!

Again many thanks from a humble REDBARON...

 

Some general notes on TO&E's:

The German TO&E's are fairly well known and available fairly widely on the net so, I will deal with the Soviets here.
Without going into great detail:

The Soviets operated two types of tank brigade at Kursk. The first was the type 1942. It consisted of two battalions each with two companies of 7 T-34 and 5 T-60/70 tanks each. The company broke down into 2 platoons of 3 T-34s each and one platoon of 5 T-60/70 tanks. The battalion HQ was 2 T-34s.
The type 1943 brigade added a third battalion and all three had two companies of 10 T-34 in platoons of 3. The 31st Tank Corps was organized with type 1943 brigades but had one T-34 battalion in each brigade replaced with US lend-lease M-3 Lee tanks.
Each brigade also contains a small battalion (about half the size of a normal one) of motorized infantry.
The assault gun regiments were organized like their artillery equivalents; in two battalions of 3 batteries. Two batteries had 6 SU 76 and one had 4 SU 122. HQ tanks were often T-34 if available.
The anti-tank regiment has 6 batteries of 4 7.62cm ATG.
Infantry battalions (of all types) had 5 companies: 3 line with either 2 heavy, 18 light machine guns and 2 5cm mortars (foot) or, 15 light machineguns (motorized), a weapons company with 9 heavy machineguns and 6 8.2cm mortars and, an AT company with 2 4.5cm ATG and 9 ATR (foot) or, 4 4.5cm ATG and 18 ATR (motor).
Regiments (both foot and motorized) had 3 battalions plus a mortar battery (6 12cm foot) / battalion (6 12cm, 12 8.1cm motor), a 7.62cm field artillery battery (foot) / battalion (motor)and, detachments of engineers, anti-tank rifles and, scouts.
In infantry divisions the 3 artillery battalions are mixed with 2 battalions of 7.62cm guns and one of 12.2cm howitzers.
If you need more specifics, let me know.

 

German OOB

II SS Panzer Corps SS Obergrüppenfuhrer Hauser

1st SS PanzerGrenadier Division SS Brigadefuhrer Wisch
1st SS Panzer Regiment (II Abteilung and 13 Kp only)
4 Pz II, 12 Pz III, 67 Pz IV, 13 Pz VI
1st SS PanzerGrenadier Regiment
3 Battalions, 1 armored, 2 motorized
2nd SS PanzerGrenadier Regiment
3 Battalions, 3 motorized
1st SS Panzer Artillery Regiment
4 Battalions, 3 light, 1 heavy
1st SS PanzerJager Abteilung
1st SS Panzer Sturmgeschultz Abteilung
1st SS Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung
1st SS Panzer Flak Abteilung
1st SS Panzer Pioneer Abteilung

2nd SS PanzerGrenadier Division
2nd SS Panzer Regiment
1 Pz II, 46 Pz III, 68 Pz IV, 14 Pz VI
3rd SS PanzerGrenadier Regiment
3 Battalions, 1 armored, 2 motorized
4th SS PanzerGrenadier Regiment
3 Battalions, motorized
2nd SS Panzer Artillery Regiment
4 Battalions, 3 light, 1 heavy
2nd SS PanzerJager Abteilung
2nd SS Panzer Sturmgeschultz Abteilung
2nd SS Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung
2nd SS Panzer Flak Abteilung
2nd SS Panzer Pioneer Abteilung

3rd SS PanzerGrenadier Division
3rd SS Panzer Regiment
8 Pz II, 47 Pz III, 79 Pz IV, 15 Pz VI
5th SS PanzerGrenadier Regiment
2 Battalions, 1 armored, 1 motorized
6th SS PanzerGrenadier Regiment
2 Battalions, motorized
3rd SS Panzer Artillery Regiment
4 Battalions, 3 light, 1 heavy
3rd SS PanzerJager Abteilung
3rd SS Panzer Sturmgeschultz Abteilung
3rd SS Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung
3rd SS Panzer Flak Abteilung
3rd SS Panzer Pioneer Abteilung

132nd Artillery Direction detachment
1st Lehr Nebelwerfer Regiment
55th Nebelwerfer Regiment
861st Light Artillery Abteilung
III/818th Light Artillery Abteilung
680th Engineering Regiment (staff)
627th Engineering Abteilung (mot.)
666th Engineering Abteilung (mot.)
929th Bridging Column (staff)
11th Bridging Column (type B)
21st Bridging Column (type B)
31st Bridging Column (type B)
2/41st Bridging Column (type B)
537th Bridging Column (type B)
840th Bridging Column (type J)
5th Construction Engineer Battalion
26th Construction Engineer Battalion
410th Construction Engineer Battalion
508th Light Road Construction Engineer Battalion
538th Road Construction Engineer Battalion

Notes on German armor:

1st SS had 35 “assault guns,” 2nd SS 34, and 3rd SS 35. This figure includes both those in the Sturmgeschultz battalion and those in the PzJr battalion.

1st SS Panzer Regiment was organized as 4 22 Pz IV companies with a total of 7 vehicles in the battalion HQ and a further 7 in the regimental HQ. The Tiger (13th company) was organized as 3 platoons. Only the II Abteilung was present.

2nd SS Panzer Regiment was organized as two 3 company battalions. All companies had 17 tanks. The 1st and 4th companies were Pz III. The other 4 were equipped with Pz IV. Both battalion HQ had 1 Pz IV and 5 Pz III assigned.

3rd SS Panzer Regiment Was organized as per 2nd SS but the Pz III companies had their full 22 tank complement vice 17.

By the 11th of July the approximate operational strength of these units was:

1st SS: 4 Pz II, 7 Pz III, 35 Pz IV, 3 Pz VI and, 22 assault guns
2nd SS: 37 Pz III, 17 Pz IV, 2 Pz VI, 14 T-34 and, 20 assault guns
3rd SS: 8 Pz II, 41 Pz III, 26 Pz IV, 5 Pz VI and, 23 assault guns

 

Very good work, T., on this and the previous post.

What is very interesting too is the difference between paper strength and real strength.

Per the figures above the PzIV battalion should have 4x22+7HQ=95 PzIVs on paper, but there are 35 available!

The Tiger company should have 3 platoons, but they have 3 vehicles, which fits nicely at 1 Tiger per platoon.

Such is the stuff Reichdreams are made of

No wonder general can't-remember-who said "We are called the 6 Tank Army because we have 6 tanks"!

Oh, and this real strength of course is different every day. These figures relate to which date in the battle in particular?

And it would be interesting to know the proportion between short- and long-barrel PZ IIIs and IVs.

 

On July 11, 1943 the 1st SS had 13 Tiger 1's, the 2nd SS had 13 Tiger 1's. Both these units had lost only 1 Tiger 1 apiece by this date. 3rd SS is unclear but on the 11th of July 43 they attacked with 11 Tiger 1's. The unit started with 14 Tiger 1's each as I listed on 1st of July 1943.

 

Yes, but the numbers I gave were those operational versus the total still with the unit. Many were in the division workshops for various repairs. And, of course, the numbers are approximate as these totals changed hourly, daily etc.
My inclusion of them was to show the approxmate numbers that were in action. Unfortunately, I don't have similar numbers for the Soviet units but they too are no doubt down a good number of vehicles as well.

 

T.A. my references said these were operational and also gives what was in the shops but these were at a later date....

for the 13./1st SS the commander Lorenz was killed in action and replaced. His Tiger 1 was the fatality of the unit causing 13 Tigers and not the full compliment of 14. My sources also which I gave listed every numbered Tiger 1 of all three units, which was 14 for each of the W-Ss units at Kursk.

 

That I recognize, but I trust you can still dig up figures on long/short barrels? Also interesting would be to know whether there were still any 37mm Pz III.

Now that we are at it, how would Pak be split, along 37/50/75mm lines?

 

Throwing out a quick question here. I noted this, and several similar, entries:

I was labouring under the impression that "Guards Mortar" units all were rocket units. Perhaps that was only during the initial deployment of Katyushas, and the practice was later diluted/disbanded. Anyone care to shed some light on this...?

 

The confusion here is that during the war rocket units were often refered to as "mortar" units even though they weren't, for deception reasons. Rather than continue this practice in the TO&E's provided I retitled them more appropriately.
The mortar units listed as such were actually mortar units generally equipped with 12cm mortars. My intent was to prevent confusion between these units and their equipment.

 

As to tank types, as far as I can tell all of the Pz III are L60 models (variously J and M's) and the Pz IV are all either F2 or G models with L48 guns. By this point in the war there were few, if any, German tanks still in front line use with the 37mm gun although the short 50 was still in some use.
More interestingly, note that the Soviets have about 30% of their vehicles being the nearly worthless T60 or T70 light tanks. While on paper the T70 looks like a fair match for a Pz III with the short 50 it is really not. The two man crew (and one man turret) ensure it is horribly inefficent in combat. Add to this a near total lack of vision devices and you have a near blind tank stumbling its way into combat. The T60 is no better and lacks both the T70's armor and gun to make it even less effective.