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Herman Goring

Discussion in 'Leaders of World War 2' started by Gunter_Viezenz, Sep 27, 2005.

  1. Man

    Man New Member

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    I fail to see how a leader acting incompetent would raise the morale of his subordinates. Furthermore, I don't see how his cape and scepter make him incompetent...
     
  2. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    I never said that would make him incompetant, but it would be kinda funny watching a highly respecting fat guy, hoppping around in a cape holding a ceptor willy-nilly.

    Could you imagien someone like Donald Trump doing that? That is humour, humour helps peopel feel better. Your talking a guy who supposedly alienated his subordinates.
     
  3. Man

    Man New Member

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    That's bordering on banal. Furthermore, morale and "feeling good" are completely different things. Making fun of himself being fat and wearing a "cape and ceptor" could give them short-lived cheerfullness, but would not inspire confidence, dedication, and willingness.
     
  4. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    Ill some up soemthing from a Luffewaffe/Nazi documentrary. Hitler needed someone he could trust and already ahd knowledge of planes and the air force, also most importantly someone loyal to Hitler. One man that fit that description was Herman Wilhelm Goering. Has been in the party member early on, has experience in teh air force, had i think 20? kills WWI tthat ment he already had ezperience in air force.
     
  5. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Goering took over the leadership of Richthofen's Squadron after the Red Baron was shot down - he was a rather well-known figure in German aviation.
     
  6. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    What did he have like 20 or 29 kills? So ya and sicne he was an ace that would give him evan more respect. Didnt he spend 6 months in a hospitla after being shot down in 1916?
     
  7. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    Actually I just found out today that you are wrong. Hermann Wilhelm Goering led the Prussian Police before Himmler incorporated it into the Gestapo. Including the rest of the German Police.
     
  8. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Acording to Len Dieghton at least you are wrong, Goering created the Gestapo which was then absorbed into the SS organisation.

    A Quick on-line quote from: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... stapo.html

    Also:

    http://www.fas.org/irp/world/germany/intro/gestapo.htm

    That's just the first two links I found.
     
  9. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    From the book I am reading it states that Himmler and Heydrich made the Gestapo and which than took over all Police in Germany, and took over Heydrichs network of spies.

    The Home Front: Germany
    BY Charles Whiting
    And the editors of time-life books

    I am gonna type out the paragrath since i donno how to use the scanner, so just ignore the spelling errors.

    pg. 38
     
  10. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Yes, however the Gestapo was still created by Goering. That the SD and Gestapo were merged under the umbrella of the SS (Along with the Concentration Camps) does not change the fact that both the Gestapo and Concentration Camps in Germany were created by Goering.
     
  11. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    Goering was forced to make the concentration camps if not what woudl you do with all the prisoners? Set them free? I doubt it.

    Creationg of Gestapo which I dont think Goering actually did, is not criminal. It would be the equivelant of creating the CIA or NSA
     
  12. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Yeah, sure he was "forced" to create environments where people whose political or religious views, sexuality or lifestyles that were deemed un-Nazi were starved, beaten or tortured. Poor him. :roll:

    Creating the Gestapo may not have been illegal but its activities were, and as the creator he bears some of the responsibility.

    You still don't think that Goering created the Gestapo? Why not?

    It is worth noting as well that AFAIK your source is wrong on the amalgamation of the German Police forces, they did not become Gestapo in their entirety, the ordinary Police remained separate from the Gestapo/SS organisation.
     
  13. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    I never said they became the Gestapo I mearly said that Himmler took over as their commander, than formed the Gestapo. Since Himmler was Chief of Police and Leader of SS, draw your own conclusions.
     
  14. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    He only assumed that position later on, though, as your own source states.

    Charles Whiting is not the best of sources, Gunter. I know this from my own experience. You could go and look for different works on the same subject, they would probably yield more reliable information.
     
  15. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    Only because many people or experts beleive something it does not make it true does it not? People used to think the world was flat but did that make the world flat?
     
  16. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Gunter, we are not living in the 1400s, the historical documents and evidence are there which is why the vast majority of historians are in accord on this one.

    On balance, you have a single source that you believe supports your contention, whereas every other source I have come across (Including those during the 2 years I spent studying Nazism for A-level history) contradicts this.

    Unless you can establish some reason why Charles Whiting is to be more trusted than other sources (perhaps he has in his possession secret or previously unknown papers not available to others?), I'm going to go with the majority on this one.

    Read other sources on it, draw your own conclusion based on these, if you stubbornly stick to your view (Which seems intent on exonerated Goering of every misdeed), that's up to you.

    Just because a single source supports your view in spite of the majority doesn't make it true either.
     

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