HITLER AND ATOMB BOMB

AFAIK Heisenberg remained in Germany.

 

True. Totally agree.

Hahaha! Funny but truth...

 

1) Washington D.C.

2) London

3) Moscow

All three are the capital of their respective countries. Cut off the head and the body dies. It would have been a morale booster for the Germans and the opposite for the three countries.

 

I think it would have been:
1. Moscow
2. New York OR Washington D.C.
3. Then London, but I think he may have used it on a more important target. Like Russian or American troops.

 

I think he would do this:
1.Moscow
2.Russian troops in the east
3.London

 

I think that that is a very nice point of view.

Maybe that's just because in your scenario the U.S.A. doesn't get bombed.

 

I view this scenario from the perspective of: the one difference as of 12-24-44 is that Hitler is armed with atomic bombs but the other techonology is the same. Put another way, what if Hitler, as of 12-24-44, decided to employ a non atomic weapon of mass destruction (WMD) - chemical weapons - which were then in both the German and Allied arsenals? Would the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine have been able to carry out significant attacks against the US mainland with WMD?

No, I don't think so. Could Germany have hit Britain and the USSR with WMD? Absolutey. And Britain and the USSR would have hit Germany with their own WMD - chemical weapons - within 24 hours because I do not see the use of WMD by Hitler, especially if limited to two or three strikes aimed at decapitating the British and Soviet governments, depriving Britain and the USSR of what we now call their counter-strike capabilities.

Germany certainly could not have deprived the United States of its counter-strike capability if the only change was that a decision had been made by Hitler to use WMD.

Had Hitler used WMD in December 1944, the Allies would have quickly retaliated and the Allies would have held the advantage because the Allies, even after a German first strike with WMD, would have had a greater ability to carry out bombing raids against Germany than Germany had to attack the Allies, even with the V-1s and V-2s.

[ 09 October 2002, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: Crapgame ]

 

I am sorry to disagree with you crapgame as the gases were very effective, odorless, could be used in bombs, shells what ever you like. A drop on the skin kills you in a minute or so...Terrifying weapons!And not good ways of protection even these days. The US forces got the antidote in Irak war 1991 and there´s talk of late effects of that(?)..Not good one way or the other?

On the US mainland attack. I am sure sooner or later there would have been means like V1´s on U-boots ( Skorzeny was developing on them ), but just shooting granades with sarin into big cities would create quite a panic, I would be anyway.

I don´t know if the US had anything quite like that back then, pure mustard gas is nowhere near as effective. The first nerve gases were ready to be used back in 1940, and they still are the main weapons in chemical warfare, I think.

ANYWAY, I AM HAPPY HITLER DID NOT USE THEM ALTHOUGH THEY WOULD HAVE CHANGED THE WAR.

Check the site where I have some sites mentioned on the sarins etc.

http://www.ww2forums.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000355;p=1

 

Kai

There isn't really an antidote to Sarin or Tabun. As the US armed forces NBC mask can only cope with mustard gas for 1 minute, it's likely that they'll try to scare Iraq from using this stuff.

Oddly NBC protection is one field where the US is well behind the Europeans.

Jumbo

 

Yes, Jumbo,

You are right about that.I was just going under the fence where it was lowest, sorry. There is no actual antidote against nerve gases. The medicine
( pyridostigmine and some others ) that is injected or taken by tablets can somewhat stop the effect against sarin etc by biochemically increasing acetylcholine which is the enzyme making muscles move.That´s what the guys took back in 1991.

If you want to read on the biochemical mechanism making muscles move to understand how the nerve toxins make their effect:

http://www.neurosci.pharm.utoledo.edu/MBC3320/acetylcholine.htm

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"Pyridostigmine exerts a reversible effect which can protect the AChE ( acetylcholinesterase )from permanently binding to OP ( Sarin etc ) compounds. When appropriate doses are selected, nerve agent poisoning theoretically should be minimal, offering protection from lethal warfare agents.

Nerve agents exert their biological effects by binding to, and inhibiting the enzyme acetylcholinesterase (Ache) which normally inactivates the neurotransmitter, acetylcholine. When levels of Acetylcholine increase, nerve impulses and organ activity increase. When nerve and organ stimulation are excessive, death can result"

http://www.leiva.freeserve.co.uk/extract.htm
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The nerve agent sarin is so potent that as little as 100 milligrams -- the equivalent of about two drops -- penetrating the skin, eyes, or mucous membranes can cause convulsions and death. In its gaseous state, as little as 50 milligrams can be fatal.

PB is a drug routinely used in the treatment of myasthenia gravis -- a disease that causes weakening of the muscles. While effective, the drug can produce gastrointestinal and muscular symptoms that are transient, mild, and tolerable. Troops in the Gulf War were given packets of PB tablets to take in advance of a chemical-weapons attack, in the hope of moderating the effects of nerve agents. Recommended doses were lower than those commonly used by doctors to treat patients with myasthenia gravis.

http://www4.nas.edu/news.nsf/isbn/030907178X?OpenDocument

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Hope this helps though it might be a bit complicated.

 

Kai

We've been doing a lot on this in the Mag currently, in the present climate we may find out just how effective this stuff is. Like most people I find it really terrifying.

Jumbo

 

Jumbo,

What kind of real-life examples ( Japan circa 95 the sub attack, the Kurds? ) do you use or intend to use in your mag? I am sure people would be interested, how dramatic the effect is. Did anybody survive at all to tell how it felt? I do not think there are any situations it was used against protected personnel/military in history or was there? Even the Germans lost men during the development of the gases and they indeed were protected well. Shows you how deadly these gases are.

I would not want to face the gas attack even with proper clothing and the tablets/injection.I am not sure of the evaporation or the elimination time of the gas but it might stick to your clothes and items and get you in the end?

I hope you don´t need to make a story in your mag on dead US soldiers, but if Saddam does use the gas, there will be loads of corpses for Bush to explain.What a nightmare!

 

Kai, I do not question the effectiveness of chemical weapons. As I say, they are a weapon of mass destruction (WMD). The problem for Germany is that they had no practical way to deliver a knock-out blow with 2 or 3 WMD and prevent the Allies from responding with Allied WMD.

When the United States bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan was still in possession of thousands of planes and dozens of submarines. Nevertheless, it was powerless to respond to the use of the atom bomb by using Japanese WMD against the distant US homeland.

In Europe, however, the UK, the Soviets and the Army Air Force had the necessary strength, resources and proximity to the German homeland to have responded to Germany's use of WMD with their own WMD. I have no doubt that it was the inability of either side in Europe to prevent a counter-strike that prevented WMD (chemical weapons) from being used on the battlefield or in air attacks during the war.

[ 13 October 2002, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Crapgame ]

 

Kai

We looked at the Aum attack in Tokyo and the Anthrax attacks in the USA to consider their effectiveness on civilian populations and the challenges these weapons present initially to local authorities. The US Army has learned quite a bit from the anthrax attacks in terms of building decontamination.

For military useage we looked at the Kurds. The pictures tell their own story, people just slumped on the floor with no apparent wounds or cause of death. The indiscriminate nature of this stuff is very depressing.

Then you have to clear it up. Everyone forgets that this stuff hangs around in moving parts ov f vehicles, for example, until the mechanic strips it down. No wonder the US plan is to incinerate every piece of equipment wich goes through a contaminated area.

Jumbo

 

I think moscow would have been first.

He hated the russians and it would have been a good way to get back at them. Also then he could have probably gotten a quick surrender from them.

He had a liking for the english or at least himmler did because they had "superior" racial stock. consider the anglo saxons who are predominately blond and blue eyed and decendants of the vikings, and the Keltic nordics who eventhough typically have dark hair are also decendants of the vikings and other than being taller than most scandinavian nordics from whom they origionated are identical to those people.

He would have probably tried to threaten parliment first. But may very well have nuked it and then taken over the country and people

The us probably would have been last if at all. he would know that once he controlled the uk there was no hope of the us ever being able to dislodge them. Also at this point the US would be alone. He would have then possbly just hold the third bomb as a threat to the US if it didn't give up resistance.

What do you think?

william p.

 

I would agree with Moscow except for that Im not sure they could reach it. I think that Hitler would have first hit Zhukov, then then Montgomery or Patton. Those troops were the most direct threat.

 

With what plane could the Lufwaffe throw a bomb on e.g. New York or Washington?

I don't think there was actually a plane, there were plans to build a plane for long distance bombing. But it was never finished.

 

Which man do you meen??
story of NORSK-HYDRO is not innocent! When germans ocupated norway inmediatly send 500 mens to work on this project and production of heavy water jumped since ocupation the production was 500 kg after ocpation production jumped to 5 tons

Heavy wather is nesesary for productin of A-bomb becose slowdown nuclear reaction.
Posesion of norsk hidro give to germans advantage in "A-bomb game " In summer of 1941 churchill orded to RAF bombing of factory but this was inposible RAF didnt have planes to do this . Heavy water factory is placed in 3000 high plateau hardengvidda in south of norway there is very coold winter and at border of this unfrendly environment in Vemork is between mountains hidden factory of heavy water. Operation was given to norvegian SOE. SOE construed plan for destroy factory the name was "operation Freshman" but operation fail and end 34 coomandos died. 17 crashed in mountain close Egersunda whit plane (horsa mk2) second plane (17men) next day captured germans and after examination shoot.
bodys are placed now in cemetery in Oslo.
But London take this sereusly and second operation "gunnerside" was succesful! commandoss destroyed electrolysis cels- hart of factory whidouth victims.
After 6 months damage was completly repared!!

Churchil didnt permit another coomandos action.
16.11.1943 150 planes bomb factory they destroy factory but reservs of heavy water was on safety underground depot.
Planes was given by americans.
Germans decided to tansport reservs of heavy water on safe in germany. In end of january 1944 it was ready 39 cisterns whit 14 tons of heavy wather but Einnar skinnerland-inginer in norsk -hidro inform london .
Last resevs blow up on lake Tinn. Ferry for transport wasnt good surrunded by guards and lieutenant Kunt Haukelid whit frends place 9kg of plastik explosive place on bow of ferry .
At deepest part of lake ferry blow up whit heavy wather and 26 men .

Heavy wather war was ended whit allied victory!!!

sory for language mistekes
my english is not ok!!!!

 

Possibly the Ju 390.......

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