How do you describe yourself politically?

Socialism did sod here in this country under the old guard of the Labour government in the 1970's. Mass unemployment and gangster unions calling there workers out on strike. Rubbish piles every where and the power cuts to boot, no bloody way do I want that again.

 

But it tends to measure equality by reference to the disenfranchised. I have no problem with the creation of opportunity for all, as long as the creation of opportunity for all, does not come at the cost of those who have already achieved opportunity.

 

I think we are getting confused between Socialism, the 'left' (which need not be socialist) and 'labour.'

Socialism as a principle, the idea that the community should support and care for those who are unable to care for themselves, that people should work for the greater good and not for individual gain is to my mind sound. The problem however is that quite a few people are either lazy and greedy, they abuse systems put in place to care for people (the NHS, benefits and so on spring to mind). To my way of thinking the idea of everyone contributing to something like the NHS is to ensure that there is a basic healthcare system in place so that the elderly etc have somewhere to turn if they cannot afford medical care. This seems sound to me, sadly however everyone seems to have this idea that they are somehow entitled to instantaneous treatment for rediculous problems (breast enlargement or sex changes on the NHS? What?) or problems they could comfortably afford to get sorted just because they pay tax. I know this doesn't excuse the rediculous failings of the system as it is however I feel it is the way we do it, not the idea itself which is flawed.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.....

RAM

 

They have to be odd to get there...Its an ego thing. Surely one must be normal though...odd in what way...beards or just plain daft...Ill go with the daft...

 

How do I describe myself politically?

with words.



sorry, once a smarta** always a smarta**!

 

I propose everyone go to The Political Compass - Test and take this test to see where their real political/social thoughts really lie in the political spectrum.

As for me, upper right hand corner about half way down!

 

Politically non-affiliated. I vote Republican because it is the lesser of two evils. Both parties have lost sight of what they are there to do. They only seek to maintain power for themselves. One party caters to special interests and the other to money. They both throw a few bones to the masses every now and then because they need votes every four years.

I am conservative, but I do strongly believe that a society should take care of the elderly, sick, infirm and those otherwise unable to take care of themselves. Those who are able to work should work. No welfare. No freebies. No crying gimme gimme gimme to the government. No work = no eat = no more problem with that deadbeat.

 

Now now, that's not true either. what Steffan said is mostly correct.
Socialism (and social-democracy as well. Sometimes I feel more of a social-democrat than a socialist) just wants to give everyone equal rights. And if you have more, then you contribute with more. In the perfect socialist state, this wouldn't even be a question. You'd give because you'd have the moral obligation to do so. It's not stealing. If you're extremely rich, you'd remain so only, you'd pay more than someone who isn't obscenely rich.
If you think of USSR or Cuba as examples, those are really poor ones. No one would place people living in your own house. At least not until our mentalities change enough in say, ten thousand years
Plus, I say that up to date, there has never been a truly socialist state anywhere in the world. I'm still waiting to see what comes out of Morales term as he's doing some great things in Bolivia but he still stands the trial of time to see what comes off of it.



Cheers...

 

That's just it. You can't force socialism into anyone. Socialism is incompatible with totalitarian regimes. It's something based on respect if you will. respect for the individual and the individual respect for the masses.
And Capitalism... well, we have plenty of capitalist societies and it's there for all to see the difference of opportunities. Just look at health and education in USA for instance.
Plus, in every study made worldwide, the most egalitarian regimes are the Social-democrat ones. I had this discussion with one of the former leaders of the Brazilian Labour party. Quite an interesting subject worth discussing more.



Cheers...

 

Miguel B. -- I respect your opinion but I really would love to have a crystal ball that would allow me to know what your perspective will be in another 20 years. Many an early 20-something has espoused your views, only to see the view evolve as personal opportunities expand. I would not consider you "wrong" for taking the views that you take, but you will forgive me if I consider your views youthful and idealistically naieve. You are still at school, sowing your wild oats and generally responsible only for yourself (unless I completely misunderstand your position). You will soon enough realize that ideology is a luxury of youth. Some day you will understand that every decision you make will have bearing not only on your quality of life, but on the quality of life of your wife, your children, and perhaps your parents. Nothing is more sobering from an ideological perspective than the responsibilities of maturity and the realization that although political debates may be enjoyable, they never resolve the issues of mortgage payments, grocery bills, and other daily necessities.

Cheers!

 

In which case I want my money back from the British bankers. Their capatalism has failed us all miserably.

 

there is nothing to forgive

Now, since when being left wing has prevented anyone from taking a good life? I think with a socialist government, more people will be able to have a decent life. I'm counting on having one with a good job and a good wife. I know a lot of people with those said responsibilities who are left wing. In fact, the only people I know who changed views did so out of this "fear" that if they defended Socialism, they'd have to leave their jobs or something... Never quite understood them. In what way does being a Socialist affects negatively citizens? If that is what you're implying.
You Americans seem to hold a lot of prejudice against Socialism. Something I can understand given your history but, you mustn't believe everything you hear about Socialism. It really is a beautiful idea, an Utopia if you like however, utopias are not things to be afraid of and steps must be taken in order to insure we'll some day reach them.




Cheers...

 

I'm pulling up a chair already. While the gas lasts (and at a good price) all will smell of roses and he'll be able to pay for all kind of social façade work. When it runs out things won't look so bright.

There's another example in the land of that clown Chavez, where social projects go all agog fueled by the oil, and while at the same time criminality just grows and murders are two a'penny.

Next time I go to the optician I'll want a pair of rose tinted glasses!

 

Just as a two hapence worth...How many murders did they get for a penny before Chavez came along?

 

Actually, crime in Venezuela isn't a Chavez created problem. It comes way back. The measures he's taking to reduce crime however are on the right track I believe. Creating conditions so people can develop.
So they're using natural resources to move forward social policies... how dare they!!! Instead of deepening their pockets or investing in other superfluous elements they decide to invest in education and health... shame on them



Cheers...

 

BRAVISIMO!!!!! or should I have said: "Checkmate". And Mr. Lutes-one of only two College Professors I had who wasn't a liberal--couldn't have said it better.

 

yes it's not the most accurate translation. You earn the good life all right you'll have to work for it obviously. We may be Socialists but we're not stupid. You have to give to the society in order to take from it.

Someone who doesn't make it's job for the society and expects to live at the expense of others would be prosecuted. In Portugal (tough we are no socialists by any stretch) people try to do this all the time living from subsidies, always arranging schemes to live at the expense of taxpayers money. That's why an anti-smartass brigade exists. In Portugal they don't work as they should as they're highly corruptible (and so are Finances employees who for the right price will let you evade your taxes). Steps to prevent this can be taken but there is a lot of resilience in order to take these said steps over here. Such could and would not happen in a socialist country since life would be more equal and education higher. Both factors critical to stop coveting what your neighbour has that you don't. Switzerland is a good example how such systems can work. If your best friend finds you're stealing the state, he will personally go to the police and rat you out.

they already do. It's called taxes. And they entitle you and others which are not as lucky as you (not out of laziness but out of luck, social status, etc...) to a good health care, public education, the works. All the minimum needed to have a good life. with these things taken care of, maybe, just maybe a lot of families can eventually improve, send their kids to college, educate themselves, etc.
Is it so unfair that if you earn more money than another guy, you'll pay higher taxes? You'll still earn more than he does but you'll also contribute more to road maintenance, health improvements, etc...

Again, these things couldn't and wouldn't happen in a socialist state. they couldn't in order for it to work. As I said, take the example of Switzerland (though they are not socialists, they have a heck of a range in social services) people have to work or they will face severe penalties.




Cheers...