Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

How many people could fit inside the warsaw ghetto?

Discussion in 'Concentration, Death Camps and Crimes Against Huma' started by DerGiLLster, May 5, 2016.

  1. DerGiLLster

    DerGiLLster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Illinois
    I understand that about 300-400k people were there in it's peak operation in the three and a half square kilometers the ghetto occupied. However would it have been possible to increase the population of the Warsaw ghetto to over a million while maintaining the same area?

    View attachment 24306
     

    Attached Files:

  2. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Poland
    It was possible, but at what cost.
    In the destroyed, living in poverty Warszaw people already lived three per room. In the Ghetto it was more but there were places where the rich lived in spacious apartments and lifts were running.
    The Ghetto was a maze of dense built, high tenements full of small rooms. By installing bunk beds, by using every possible space including stairwells, courtyards, attics, basements, or maybe even streets the density could have been easily increased.
     
  3. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,997
    Likes Received:
    237
    As much as would be put in
     
  4. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    14,291
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I agree with LJAd. Since the Nazis had no concern with the living conditions inside the Ghetto, it's easy to imagine them doubling, even tripling, the number of people there.
     
  5. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Poland
    It's not quite true that they had no concern with the living conditions there.
    The Ghetto was working for their war industry, and military production had absolute priority. Increasing the population to the point the production would be disturbed would not be allowed.

    For the same reason, and because there were some German sanitary regulations they had to follow, they were interested in prevention of epidemic diseases, so an entire large organisation was created solely for this purpose.

    The power of the SS wasn't unlimited. Actually there were German laws even they had to follow.
    They wanted to execute Jewish children leaving the Ghetto to buy food - and it couldn't be done, German law forbade punishing minors. They wanted to remove all phones from the Ghetto for security reasons, and they were unsuccessful in this too.
     
  6. ZeJanIt

    ZeJanIt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    1
    100% correct. the nazi dogs didn't care about Jewish life or any the state deemed useless.
    IMO we should do the same to them. I get that after ww1 they were broken, hurt, poor, but payback like this is not ok.
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,364
    Likes Received:
    5,715
    I'm sure they followed the rules in the case they reported to the authorities.
     
  8. ZeJanIt

    ZeJanIt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't know if I subscribe to this. the jews weren't humans. laws didn't apply to them... can you back this up with fact/links?

    they could kill jews anytime they wanted. like shooting a stray dog that attacked your live stock.
     
  9. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Poland
    For example, from Non-Germans under the Third Reich: The Nazi Judicial and Administrative System in Germany and Occupied Eastern Europe by Diemut Majer:

     
  10. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    359
    Location:
    New England
    Laws?! Those laws were a smokescreen. Pure window dressing bull.... Laws were put in place on a technicality. Regardless of their written form, and I have read them, those laws were utilized to soften their appearance on the stance of the Jews to foreign powers and to the Judenrat. The SS had overwhelming authority over the ghettos and camps. They could do what they pleased. The ghettos would have been cleared by violence if the SS was not concerned for the psychological toll it took on foot soldiers.

    The Nazi regime was full of "laws" as smokescreens to carry out their true vision.
     
    LRusso216 likes this.
  11. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    14,291
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I agree with KJ. The promulgated laws applied to Germany (although they were rarely enforced against the SS), but most of the camps and ghettos were outside Germany. German laws certainly didn't apply there. KJ is correct, the SS would have wiped out the ghettos except for the psychological aspect in regular soldiers. The damage they did was enormous and it would have been greater if they could have found enough men to do the job. Your quote is disingenuous at best.
     
  12. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    It wasn´t a German problem, it was a Jewish problem, I think. All that is sent there must fit.
     
  13. ZeJanIt

    ZeJanIt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    1
    100% right
     
  14. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Poland
    Unfortunately the Jews who lived then disagree:
    So two years into the war Jews caught outside the Ghettos were sentenced by the Special Courts, and had the right to appeal to the Governor General (a procedure which took a few months to complete).

    And still the execution of a several people was so unusual it "set all Warsaw trembling".

    The German security forces were given the right to execute on the spot the Jews caught outside the ghettos at the beginning of 1942. They never were given the right to execute people without any reason, because it "felt good". Although it obviously happened.
     
  15. green slime

    green slime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    584
    Well, as we know the world record for the number of people in a VW beetle (20) we just have to ask how many VW beetle's could be crammed into the Ghetto.

    [​IMG]

    Probably more cars than Herr Schickelgrüber actually built.

    [​IMG]

    Of course, there is the space advantage of compacting the cars to be considered as well. The ultimate fate of the jews being irrelevant, anyway.

    [​IMG]

    How many Jews could fit inside a column of smoke?
     
  16. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    359
    Location:
    New England
    Pardon my tone, but it amazes me that you still believe the Jews had rights during the occupation. And that those laws were legit. Were they put on paper, yes, did some of the German officers follow those rules, yes, but again, it was a smokescreen. The wheels of the Final Solution were already in motion.

    In your attempt to prove your point correct, you seem to be neglecting the plight of the Jews by focusing on a ludicrous law that solved nothing. Please understand, I agree that those laws were emplaced and, as you evidenced, eased some concern.

    However, they were means to an end for the SS. Pure window dressing to hide the truth of the regime.
     
  17. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,645
    Likes Received:
    305
    Location:
    Untersteiermark
    It was the opposite: the Germans were Jewish problem #1.
     

Share This Page