Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

How many tanks did the American army have when Germany invaded Europe (West), and how many of these

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Katyusha, May 25, 2013.

  1. Katyusha

    Katyusha New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    How many tanks did the American army have when Germany invaded Europe (West), and how many of these were i.) heavy tanks, ii.) medium tanks, iii.) light tanks.??

    a little help here please :3
     
  2. Katyusha

    Katyusha New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    anyone?
     
  3. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,093
    Likes Received:
    1,068
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Google is your friend. Assuming that you mean the late spring of 1940:

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=us+army+tanks+in+service+1940

    http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/download/csipubs/EvolutionOfTankInArmy_Steadman.pdf

    "But by the time Germany invaded France in May 1940, the US Army possessed only 28 new tanks (10 medium and 18 light tanks) and 900 obsolete models scattered among the infantry, mechanized cavalry, and ordnance depots".

    As for the 'obsolete tanks' it references, look up whatever the US Army built in the early 1930s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II
     
    belasar likes this.
  4. Katyusha

    Katyusha New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
  5. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,093
    Likes Received:
    1,068
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
  6. Katyusha

    Katyusha New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    this might be it. thank you for answering :D

    Edit:

    btw is this the correct answer??

    359 light tanks, 6 mediums and 0 heavy tanks in may 1940 when Germany invaded west Europe
     
  7. Katyusha

    Katyusha New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Light tank production

    M2a1 - 19
    M2a2 - 19
    M2a4 - 1938 (?)
    M2a5 - 375 (?)

    Medium Tank Production

    M2 - 94
    M2a1 - 94 (?)

    are these right??

    sorry for double posting.
     
  8. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,312
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Michigan
    Looking at:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II
    it depends on just exactly what your question is. For instance in you want the numbers of US tanks when Germany invaded poland it looks like some M2's both light and medium were produced in 1940 so you'd have to subtrat them from your numbers.
    This site states:
    http://users.swing.be/tanks/edito/usa.htm

    Here's a site on the M1 light of which all were apparently produced before 1939. Not sure how many were in service at that point though:
    http://users.swing.be/tanks/engins2/463.html
    Here's a similar page on the M2A1 light
    http://users.swing.be/tanks/engins2/456.html
    Looks like production was complete in the first half of 39.
    Here's the one for the M2A4 light:
    http://users.swing.be/tanks/engins2/324.html
    This site states:
    http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/BigL/BigL-1.html

    And this one notes:
    http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/BigL/BigL-2.html

    Part of the problem is what was considered an armored car and what was considered a tank was rather blurred at that time.
     
  9. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,377
    The U.S also trained in second hand FT17s
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,885
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    and

    Hunnicutt paints a rather different picture of the immediate post-World War I period
    From his Sherman book

    With regards to the armored car. It wasn't so much the armored cars that blurred the lines, but what were termed "combat cars." The term came into existence because of the Defense Act of 1920 - which limited tanks only to the Infantry branch of the US Army. So, to get tanks for their Cavalry in the mid-30s, the term "combat car" was invented. Thus the M1 Combat car was produced for the Cavalry beginning in FY 1935(the original M1 Combat Car is left out as it was a pilot vehicle) with 38 constructed, 19 in FY 1936, and 32 in FY 1937. In FY 1938, the M1A1 was introduced with 24 being produced(seven of these were the M1A1E1 which had a different engine). Beginning in FY 1940, the new M2 Combat Car was introduced with 34 produced.
     
    lwd likes this.
  11. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,312
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Michigan
    Thanks for the clarification. I remembered it was something like that. From your quote it also looks like production at least during and shortly after WWI was mostly over seas. I'm also wondering of the numbers above included some of the tanks designed and built by private companies such as Christie's tanks. Although again some of his designs wouldn't be considered tanks today or as the term "wheeled tank" is coming into use perhaps they would.
     
  12. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,885
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    The numbers From Hunnicutt are all American production numbers. The Americanized Ft-17(Six-Ton Tank M1917) was produced by the Van Dorn Iron Works, Maxwell Motor Company, and C. L. Best Company. As the Hunnicutt quote mentions, the Mark VIIIs were constructed at the Rock Island Arsenal in Rock Island, Illinois. There is a good article that can be found in "Ordnance Volumes 1 & 2", beginning on pg. 27. "Ordnance" can be viewed at Google Books or freely downloaded.
    Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=oLXmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=manufacture+of+Mark+VIII+Tanks+at+Rock+Island+Arsenal&source=bl&ots=Us2-jP_zTh&sig=VHiYadawd2zVSq1VsEsGfHpAbzQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kWemUcX_DoTC4AOVwoE4&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBA

    No, the numbers I posted from Hunnicutt do not include any of the one-offs, Christie or otherwise.
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,312
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Michigan
    I wonder why the huge disparity in numbers then. Could be the ones on hyperwar were looking at American designed tanks. It doesn't say that though. Wonder if I should bring it to Opanna's attention.
     
  14. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,885
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Actually, it falls under either a misquote or a poorly worded quote.

    The "Big L - Chapter 2" Sources the quote to "Production Goes to War", page unknown, but under the heading "Tanks". However, "Production Goes to War" spends two paragraphs on the FT-17 and Mark VIII(although not specifically mentioned). Then goes on to say

    So, would the "15 years" be would most likely pertain to Fiscal Years 1920-1935. Thus, it does not include all of the World War I tanks produced immediately following World War I.

    A link to a poor copy of "Production Goes to War" http://njdh.scc-net.rutgers.edu/enj/lessons/ww_ii_industrial_production/pdf/production_goes_to_war.pdf


    Regarding "The Big L - Chapter 1", I don't have copies of either "History of United States Military Logistics, 1935-1985, A Brief Review" by Jerome G. Peppers, Jr. or "Arsenal of Democracy" by Donald M. Nelson. So I cannot attest to the combined quote in "The Big L - Chapter 1". But it would appear that they have also dropped the immediate post-World War I production of tanks, and included only the short runs and one-offs that were used for testing.
     
    rkline56 and lwd like this.
  15. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,312
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Michigan
    Thanks for the detective work. Sounds like a case of sloppy writing. Note that both of those had the same author.
     
  16. Earthican

    Earthican Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    156
    In round figures, the numbers below check with "Shock, Mobility and Firepower". The Combat Cars were in the 7th Cavalry Brigade (Mechanized)( ~ 80). The light tanks were in the three battalions of the 66th Infantry Regiment (Light Tanks) and three independent battalions (~ 40 each). The medium tanks were going to the 67th Infantry Regiment (Medium Tanks). All at less than T/O strength.

    I would not count the FT-17's in the National Guard, these were for training until new equipment arrived.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Combat_Car
    Combat Car M1
    * M1 - the original variant. 89 built.
    * M1A1 - new octagonal turret instead of a D-shaped one; increased distance between the wheel bogies. 17 built.
    * M1A1E1 - engine replaced by Guiberson T-1020 diesel. 7 built.
    * M2 - new Guiberson diesel engine and trailing idler. 34 built.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Light_Tank
    Light Tank M2
    * M2A1 (1935).
    o .50 MG in a single turret. 10 units were produced.
    * M2A2 (1935).
    o Twin turrets. Dubbed "Mae West". 239 units produced.
    * M2A3 (1938).
    o Twin turrets, Thicker armor, improved suspension. 72 units produced.
    * M2A4 (1940).***
    o Single turret with 37mm gun. Thicker armor. 375 units produced.

    *** started delivery in April, probably 18 issued units cited above.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Medium_Tank
    Medium Tank M2
    "Production of the M2 was returned to the Rock Island Arsenal, where 94 M2A1s were eventually built."
    1939 - 18 units ###

    ### probably 10 issued units cited above
     

Share This Page