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If Valkyrie succeeded?

Discussion in 'What If - Other' started by WarCorrespondant24, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. WarCorrespondant24

    WarCorrespondant24 New Member

    Jul 27, 2017
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    What would have happend if Valkyrie succeded?

    What would Stauffenberg etc. have done if they succeeded in killing Hitler? Would they have been reaosnably moral (shutting down concentration camps?)

    If they continued the war it would have been harder for us, since they were actual generals who knew what they were doing.

    How might the final year and 1/2 of WW2 go if Hitler had been killed?
  2. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Jan 5, 2009
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    I'm not much for What Ifs, but here is one set of circumstances:
    The 20 July, 1944 plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler resulted in tragedy on multiple levels. Not only did it fail in its primary objective, but it led to the capture of 7,000 people, of which 4,980 were executed. Worse, it retrenched and further radicalized Nazi party. Called Operation Valkyrie, the conspiracy was organized by Wehrmacht officers who wanted Hitler out of the picture so Germany could negotiate a separate peace with the western Allies and continue the war against the U.S.S.R. It’s highly unlikely, however, that Washington and London would have gone for it (recalling Roosevelt’s infamous “unconditional surrender” speech — and the fact that the Big Three already had an agreement ruling out a separate peace under any circumstances).
    There’s been much debate over what might have happened had Hitler been killed in the war’s final year. It’s unlikely that his death would have resulted in the collapse of the Nazi party or the Axis war effort. Even Claus von Stauffenberg, a leading member of the Valkyrie plot, accepted that he would “go down in German history as a traitor.” Indeed, despite the sorry state of the war, the cult of personality surrounding the Fuhrer was surprisingly resilient.
    Had the plot been successful, however, a likely scenario would have seen either Hermann Göring or the fanatical Heinrich Himmler ascend to the lead Germany. Both would have had the plotters captured and executed and the Nazis would have probably continued the war. A Third Reich under new management might have surrendered earlier, sparing Germany the cataclysm that was to befall it in 1945.
    Another possible scenario is that the death of Hitler could have kick-started a more vociferous internal resistance movement — one that might have led to civil war. But owing to widespread German patriotism, this scenario is quite improbable.
    Alternate Endings — Ten Hypothetical Events That Would Have Changed the Outcome of World War Two

    (By the way, this should be moved to the Alternate History or What If forum
  3. green slime

    green slime Member

    Nov 18, 2010
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    "Success" of Valkyrie hinged on two events; killing Hitler, and seizing the opportunity provided by the confusion to seize power, primarily in Berlin, hoping that the centralisation of power into the hands of the conspirators through the highly secretive emergency preparations made for a counter-coup in the paranoid third Reich, would be enough to wrest power from the faithful, given the amount of confusion and counter-information..

    Had the conspiracy been wide enough, and enough of the conspirators been sincerely determined and convinced then it would not have been necessary to kill Hitler; it would've been sufficient to arrest him. Instead, so many conspirators were not actually willing to be seen to be doing something unless Hitler was dead. This was the weakness. Because certain elements refused to move until Hitler's death was confirmed, important hours and opportunities were lost. For example, control of the radio station.

    Nevertheless, had both events succeeded (Killing Hitler, seizing power), which are both a prerequisite to calling Valkyrie a success, it would nevertheless in all likelihood not resulted in the conclusion that the majority of the conspirators were hoping for. The Allies demanded unconditional surrender, which would've resulted in the leaders also facing loss of power, and facing trial. IIRC, Himmler knew of the conspiracy (but perhaps not the exact timing).

    It is likely that some form of civil war would've erupted, but how long, and the severity of it depends on so many factors, it doesn't bare thinking about.

    It is a myth, that Hitler "meddled," perpetuated by surviving German Generals.

    Observe that the Yalta conference wasn't until beginning of 1945, so the discussion of spheres of influence between West and East has not yet concluded, and these lines may well have been different. But Germany wouldn't be left intact.
  4. harolds

    harolds Member

    Aug 9, 2011
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    To me, the big thing was that any new government, coming into power by killing Hitler, wouldn't have the "consent of the governed". In other words, it would not be legitimate in the eyes of the German people. Without killing or imprisoning Himmler and his top aides, as well as Bormann, Goring, Goebbles, etc. any assassination would have little chance for success to begin with. If they weren't taken out some way then they would have rallied the German population, who were aghast at the attempt to begin with, against the plotters. If they were then forced into unconditional surrender anyway (very likely) there would have been another "stabbed in the back-if only the Fuhrer had survived" myth after the war. Only well after the war were the July 20th plotters seen in a favorable light by the majority of Germans.

    By the way, there's good evidence that Rommel had his own plot and that was to open up the Western Front so that the Western Allies would get into Germany first.
  5. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

    Sep 18, 2013
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    Bormann was probably the most dangerous person in the Third Reich. The person who controls access to and controls the message to the main person always holds all the cards. He is compared to Stalin in regards to being a cold, calculated and quiet operator.
  6. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

    May 5, 2013
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    ....probably would've been a ''civil'' war between the resisters and the SS/Goebbels/etc ......many trying to grab power/not be murdered--arrested/etc
    ...a lot of generals were loyal to their ''loyalty to Germany
  7. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

    May 9, 2010
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    Thread moved to better forum.

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