Iraq question

As far as I am aware the plan was to turn the country over to the Iraqis as soon as possible.

I'm sure that they must have put a decent level of planning into the 'after the battle' part of the campaign (rebuilding infrastructure etc), but I do sometimes wonder...

 

That's not always, that's one incident nearly 40 years old.

 

..yes , imagine if every serbian soldier who murdered civillians or raped and looted in the last balkan bloodbath was actually put on trial for his war crimes by his own military command ...ha ha hah ..yes ,i know ,thats like asking himmler to bring to justice his own special action etnic cleansing ss troops ..but imagine a serbian military that actually pursued wrongdoers within its own ranks like the western powers do ..why then they would have to jail almost their entire army and then the entire officer corps and the general staff..its much easier to denie it ever happened ...DENIE , DENIE ,DENIE .....except of course those war crime commited by the croats and bosnians ,albanians ect ..in fact if you ask any balkan person about war crimes ...the only REAL war crimes that actually happened , ever , at any time in the FORMER YUGOSLAVIA are the ones perpitrated against ones OWN people ,right sinessa?
personally , i agree that lt calley got off much to lightly for the balkan like way he allowed his troops to run rampant ... imo , he should have gotten the rope , just as a lesson to all the other platoon and company leaders and to show the world we dont tolerate such behaviour in the us military ...but really for a serb or croat or bosnian to poke , probe and find fault with the us military justice system is quite laughable in a truely cosmic way...

 

In Serbia,there is more then 20 trials for war crimes on domestic courtes + on international court ih Holand. Some of ppl from domesic trial get convicted on diferent sentences. In Serbia,there is no death penalty,and longest sentence is 40y of prison,so ur point is....not on the place actualy.I dont denie the crimes, they was present on all 3 sides in that bloody war,ppl with blood on their hand need to be punished,it is clear as a day. True,there is some resitance in nation coz some on that ppl consider to be heroes actualy,and good part of them r charged on command responsibility. None from otther sides was charged on same basic, and i sow the video where some Croat generals command to burn all Serbian vilages in Croatia. I allso sow the videos when Mujahedins capture some Serbians, late mid ages ( Serbian army in bosnia was made from local folks,it was not professional army) and after some period of worst tortures they one was shoot from point blank after they pooke his eyes,and second was Decapitated. In bosnia was 5-10k Mujahedin arab fighters ,and they r still there actualy,who commited worst crimes (u all know how they do) and they get Bosnian citizenship. Who was charged for that,on command responsability coz,obviusly they was organised to go in Bosnia on higher level of command.

I was part of Serbian army in 2000. and i was stationed on Kosovo border in south Serbia. I had some combat engagments when Albanian Terrorists crosed the border to attack Serbian Police and Military pousts. We newer had any conflict with Albanian civilians,and nobod touched them ewer for mine 6 moth there. But u probably dont know,that many ot Albanians who crossed the border did not had Uniforms on them,they was in civilian clothes ,armed with RPG-s and AK's. When u eliminate them ,they kick away weapons and present them as killed civilians on cameras...In thime when paraphine test show that they shooted from weapons recently it is usualy too late (like in racak Vilage,excuse for Bombing of Yugoslavia,there was 20 civilians killed and 18 of them used weapons in recent past! Allso 2 Policemans was killed there,so point that they was unarmed civilians just don hold the water.)

Basicly,i can admit that we r Savage and warrior ppl ( Serbs,Albanians ,Croats) and that is coz we got wars like past 1300 years on regular base, but i dont hide myself behing fogg of democracy like US do. Now,present in Iraq is ocupation.Security council did not aproove action VS Iraq. It was act of Agression by all international law,and now ur stucked there. US soldier comited more crimes in past from the WWII ,along with USSR. So pls dont lecture me about balcan situations, i am there,i was there,and i will be here for long as i live. I got many Bosnian and Croat good friends here and when u ask them how war start,and why nobody know,but we r all sry. But ur point about Israel talk all about u right ? :lol:

 

ww2 was full of some really nasty stuff ,the ija in china, the bataan death march ..the special action ss thugs in eastern europe ..one place in the world stands out as a special place in hell ...that is the balkans ...the chetniks the ustashi ,titos partisans ,the bosnian ss detachments ..in the balkans ,a bullet in the neck would seem to be leniency compared to other ways to die ...granted , the serbs were victims in this dantiesque horror more often than not ...
after the breakup of the former yugoslavia ,however it was the serbs who seemed to take charge as chief executioners ,,,the word "ethnic cleansing " was coined by the serbs and the systematic abduction and serial gang rapes of hundreds croat and muslim girls by the serbs is one of the things that triggered the west into action ..the collapse and stand down of dutch un troops while the serbs went about cleansing the towns and woods of bosnians was already discussed here ..i dont doubt that the serbs were also victims of ethnic cleansing by their croat and bosnian neighbors ...the question is , who started it and who did the most of it ? the preponderence of evidence would seem to implicate the serbs ...sinessa , i know you belive it was all a big nato conspirecy so that the clintens could grab the smokestack steel mills that were the pride of serbia before the war , this notion seems a bit far fetched to me .and you go on to state that the us military is guilty of many more war crimes than sebia since ww2 ..what crimes would those be , other than mai lia ? i am all ears , please feel free to lecture me...

 

Gentlemen, this is beginning to sound like "Your country committed more war crimes than mine!" kind of forum. May we get back on the discussion at hand?

 

Thank you Kaiser.

 

sinnesa claims us troops commited more war crimes (than balkann or mabey serbian troops since ww2 ) i would like to know what crimes he is referring to ...i can ask ,right?

 

Shure Kaiser ur right.

Woody: Just cout the conflict from WW II when US participate and all casulties. Ex Yu war: 250-300k casulties on all sides,military and civilian.

Vietnam 3mil Vietnamees dead (only Vietnam) and i will not write about otther wars.


NATO actions in Yugoslavia: 300k Serbs chasen away from Croatia.200k Serbs chasen away from Kosovo and 100k Gypsy chasen from Kosovo,and i dont count Bosnia there. What u think where r that poor ppl now? Since 1999. around 1k Serbs was killed r missing on Kosovo. And leth consider NATO targets in Serbia. 169 KIA soldiers, 13 MTB destroyed, (only 1 M-84) 17 APC destroyed and 20 Arty pieces. 50 Planes, (moust of that old, and unflyable crafts) with 11 Mig 29 and some G-4 Trainers. Ok,that was military targets. Rest was pure civilian targets i may say. Civilian casulties was much more then military. 3-5k civilian casulties and 60% of that by cluster bombs (some ppl die much after NATO strykes,from left ower clusters). For NATO it is "colateral damage". NATO impact on army was minor ,basicly not a loss in strenght,but on owerall life in Serbia it was devastating.Many ppl left without jobs,economy (in bad shape b4 that) was more destroyed. So what was the real Goal? Serbia is not Iraq. Heawy forest land is not perfect for Air strykes,and alot decoys and modells gived NATO falshe impression that they destroyed alot more. Why none apache entered the Serbian Soil? Why 2 apaches crashed in accidents as NATO say?

Wars in ex YU was so complicated that i dont expect that any out from this region undestand it. Communism was good in that matther. In communism we was all the same,and religion was not matther (Communism say that there is not god) what was excelent to put nationalisam on side.Once the communism fail,whell...guess what heapened. Croatia proclamed NDH (type in google NDH) what scare out of hell all serbs there.Rest is known history.

 

While i am sure the US has been in a war or battle almost every decade since 1900,and that the US sure did kill many people and innocents included(for such is war,everyone is a casualty). This is no reason to say that the US committed more war crimes than anybody.

I am sure a gentleman such as yourself,sinissa would understand that in every conflict,there will be a few people in every military force that would not hesitate to shoot first and ask later that caused all these war crimes. And while i am sure in the few wars that has been fought by the US would include some war crimes by INDIVIDUAL soldiers or units that MAY have gone undocumented,this is never reason enough to say that the US did commit more war crimes.

Let us drop this matter because this is something no one can prove or provide evidence.

AND GET BACK TO IRAQ! :angry:

 

The US certainly punishes more war criminals than most other countries, which may lead some to believe that there are simply more war crimes committed by Americans

 

the reason for nato/un action in serbia was in fact serbian atrocitys against civillians ..ie ethnic cleansing ...WAR CRIMES commited by serbian paramilitarys over 3 years brought worldwide outrage and ultimatly war to serbia..people lost jobs and the economy was wrecked ? thats what happens when you lose a war ,killing civilleans while cluster bombing serbian military targets is called collateral damage ...rounding up civillians to murder or rape them is war crime .
.i dont doubt 3 million vietnamese north and south died in the ten year conflict ...are you triyng to implie that all these people were the victems of war crimes commited by the us military ,sinessa ? ..i guess all the people who died in western europe after 1941 were also victems of us war crimes ? after all people died and us troops WERE PRESENT ,therefor they all must be victems of war crimes perpitrated by us troops ..how many korean people died durring the korean war ? you may aswell lump the all together as war us crime deaths , including NK troops killed by un forces and south koreans killed by the NKs ..people died , us troops were there ...ergo these deaths must all be us warcrimes ..imo ,this fornula of yours is flawed and seems somewhat biased...