Iraq

Oh and to clarify some points just in case.

I truly love this country as this is where I have lived most of my life, but I despise the current administration which has destroyed everything that the previous generations have built which made this country so remarkable.

 

am not real sure I agree slon that the present admin has destroyed everything that the previous admins have done in the past but Bushy has really become a watered down servant his cabinet is a farce and sadly the new whomever for 08 on either party side will be even worse. there are no guts admin coming our way for the future............we could get run over like a mack truck.
Yes Putin is a sly devil and we have been watching for some years the infiltration within the mid-east. Frankly it might be good for him to just clean house with military at hand due to the shame felt from Afghanistan though sorry he may just take it onto Iran and Syria with false promises to secure future oil reserves. It is actually the smart thing to do..........deceit can be an art. Will the Iranian schmuck be dupped enough ? possibility though he is still on his high horse that he is going to usher in the # 12 Immam to cleanse the wrold of the Gentile and Jew.

 

Thanks for the comments Carl. One one major difference will remain and is specific to this war (and Vietnam) compared to WWII . When the WWII boys returned, they were treated like heroes, I'm not sure the public will treat the Gulf vets in a similar way and that is probably the worst aspect. Risking your life is one thing : being treated like dirt (or ignored which is even worse) when you return is probably what will make many future veterans bitter.
Things are getting even more serious now. The Turks are moving toward the Iraqi border and , the oil baril rose to an absolute record of 88.2$ before they even launched any offensive.

 

Well, I for one am glad that we are in Iraq. I just re-joined the Mississippi National Guard, and, with any luck, I'll be able to get back on active duty some time in the near future. I am of the opinion that WW2Forums is a place where one can try and understand the misdeeds of tyranny and oppression that was imposed on the world by Nazism and the like, and , armed with such knowledge, may see what obligation the world has at staving off such a return. So, really, what is the difference between radical Islam and Nazism?
YouTube - muslims nazi connection

 

Good point Wilcongr. I think we will all agree that both Facists and Islamic radicals are to be fought. One thing however: Islamic fundamentalism was under control with Saddam and most insurgeants are not Iraqies but Syrians, Palestinians etc.. The religious uprisal in iraq is a direct consequence of the war. but it is true that this time would be the worst to leave, as rival factions would take power and possibly instaure an Islamic republic in Iraq, which means those who fell , both coalition and Iraqi civilians died for nothing. On the other hand troops could be transferred to Aghanistan , so yes, it's a big issue.

 

Oh come on! Religion may be of some help to the Iraqi resistance but nationalism has far more to do with it. What would you do if the USA invaded your country and slaughtered your people?

As for "Islamo-Fascism", who built a concentration camp at Guantanamo so that it would evade US legal restrictions on arrest, imprisonment and torture? Who has revived the 'Nacht und Nebel' decree? Who has reinvented the definition of torture so as to 'legalise' it?

The bUShA regime has dragged the USA's reputation into a gutter that will take decades to climb out of - if ever.

 

I understand this is not the main object of your post, but this part especialy makes me react.

Nobody can seriously claim that the US army mission is to "slaughter Iraq people".

On the contrary, the fact the US army tries to spare population as much as possible is specificaly what makes things so difficult.

They are some accidents and blunders, there are some individual mistakes or misconducts of course, but the US army does not leave civilian mass burials on its path, like so many armies have done in the past and nowadays.

As I already posted, when confronted to terrorism, you can either do your best to keep your honour, or you can lower to the level of the terrorists you are fighting against (Algeria or Chechenia comes to mind).

In the later case, you can gain some fast, limited and precarious results, but the deserved hate you will earn is always a loss for both sides in the long run.

And being from France, I answer before I even listen for the question

 

The war in Iraq certainly does have more to do with Nationalism that religious fundamemtalism.

Sadly it makes a nice scapegoat to blame it all on religous nutters as it takes away the problem of having to deal with the fact that it may be tribal and national based.

It was the same when the British tried the same thing in 1918...

Let me ask our USA brethren a question...

If the USSR invaded the USA and took over, would you sit by and let them govern your country or go out and kill and maim any of their troops and associates?

It is resistance against a perception of an occupation, that is further fuelled by tribal hatred, ethnic diversity and religous fundamentalism.

A very difficult thing to deal with.

 

Squeeth, I agree about the nationalists, but their was hardly any religious issue before 2003, now there is one and kamikazes who die in iraq are certainly not Iraqis nationalists but mostly foreign religious fanatics who often crossed the border via Syria. In fact Iraqis hate them more than anyone else because they don't hesitate to kill civilians.

 

Isn't it always the case that propaganda always seeks to separate resistance from the people? "They've been stirred up by outside agitators"; "a few regrettable incidents by overzealous junior officers"?

I don't doubt that the end of the Saddam regime which was secular has allowed suppressed religious sentiment to emerge but I would have thought that since this has led to Baa'thists, Sunnis and Shi'ites and Kurds fighting amongst themselves that it would be in bUShA's interests to encourage it. I wouldn't expect them to be unduly scrupulous about doing a bit of sectarian incitement themselves.

My impession is that Bush is in the same boat as Lyndon Johnson.

**Apologies everyone I didn't notice that there were several comments.**

~~~~~On the contrary, the fact the US army tries to spare population as much as possible is specificaly what makes things so difficult.~~~~~

No doubt the US army has the firepower to much worse than it has but the phrase 'as much as possible' is going to be scant comfort to the Iraqi people who are living (and dying) with what it has done. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the US army practice to fight at a distance with heavy weapons rather than risk casualties to infantry? Doesn't the US govt distance itself from much of the odium of its terror methods by fobbing it off on mercenaries like Blackheart?

 

I cant help but wonder at the rather bizarre relation of Islam to Nazism.

Other than trawling out the boring propaganda of the Mufti visiting Waffen-SS troops, I can never see its real value.

To me its just another form of out of context scaremongering.

But posted by a man with a Blackwater badge in his sig line so I shouldnt really be surprised!

 

Curious how the attempt by Lehi (the Stern Gang) to do a deal with Hitler gets so little publicity.

 

Possibly cos the Stern Gang were a bunch of terrorist who first came up with car bombs?

Just a thought like.

Plenty of British soldiers died at there hands post WW2. I knew a guy who served with 6th Airborne out there after the war. Said it was heart breaking to see guys who had survived the war to get shot down by 'thugs' as he put it.

 

Here's hoping that the scuttle of British forces in Iraq is a step in the right direction.

 

I'd like to have your opinion on the average soldiers, they are having trouble and I think it's not their fault that politicians send them where they are now. They should not be blamed as it is so often the case. Most of them have not choice.. If they stay they get the worst reputation and risk thier lives, when (and if) they return the are considered as nothing and I think that's wrong. Okay this war should not have started, but it happened.

 

They are soldiers just like any other soldier from any other war. They do the job they are told to by the politicians.

I cant say I have heard of any Iraq War vets being treated badly... I aint seen anyone on here denigrate their service or attention to their duty. All we want is for them to come home safe.

But as you point out... This war should not have happened in the first place so you are back to the politicians again...

 

In fact I was referring to several examples of American soldiers who returned home crippled and who could not get a job or even get health insurance. there are now associations who are trying to get these men a decent post-war life. I forgot the name of a special hospital which takes care of many of the wounded. It's a terrible thing to see.

 

I personally support the US troops. Just like Vince said, they are just doing they're job. Sure many of them dont want to be there ( I have many friends who are either there or have been there who say this ) but they have no choice.

Anyone IMHO, whoever does not support the troops of their own country is either a fool or a traitor.

As the US troops are stuck doing their job to the best of their ability, they do so honorably.
Sure there are rotten apples which spoil it for the rest of them, but this is the case with any country in any conflict.

What I find shocking is how some US news networks however only focus in on these rotten apples and it seems as if they are almost trying to dishonor the brave lads fighting in this bitter conflict and the country. When in reality it is not their fault but the administrations.

 

I think that guilt by association is bad whomever it is used against. I think that the ordinary squaddies are more sinned against than sinning. No doubt some US (and other) soldiers have disgraced themselves but that's no excuse to damn them all. As usual the odd scapegoat is ritually disowned, preferably a private soldier, preferably not caucasian in hue but the big criminals, Bush and his camarilla, Bliar and the other toadies are the ones who should be in gaol.

I can't help wondering what it is doing to US-UK army morale to see injured soldiers treated like New Orleans residents or NHS patients.