It is 1942. You're commander of the Axis. What would you do?

There are extensive threads on Malta both here and on the Axis history forum. A little searching will turn them up and allow you to proceed from there in a more informed manner.

One thing you are apparently neglecting is that changing production can have a big impact on production. The US went to a considerable effort to minimize that impact. Shared parts between various vehicles helped to a great extent. Not much way to minimize it if you go from an Italian to a German design. Likewise major modifications can have a bit impact. That sort of industrial planning hasn't been noted as a strong point of Italian industry.

 

I agree that taking modest improvements have value in a military effort and I agree it does not need to be a war winning idea to be worth doing, but let us consider the threads topic header. Its 1942 and what does the Axis leadership do? For Germany and Japan this is their high tide, or at least close to it. For most Axis allies their fate rests on the success or failure of the Big Two. For Italy it is the 11th hour, or at least past their bedtime. Italy will be looking for a exit strategy within a year and a half and be out of the Axis alliance by September 1943.

As to not giving your ideas their fair due, and I am not trying to be harsh here, they tend to revolve around two main themes. The first is getting Italian, Hungarian and Romanian troops fighting along side or near Finnish troops for improved training and exposure to Soviet Technology. The other is a development of a Italian "Stug IV" like vehicle.

Lets tackle the first, Italy was fighting along side Germany almost from the start and Germany was though most of the war the Gold Standard for both the tactical and operational art of war. There is really very little they could learn from Finland they could not learn from Germany except how to adapt to fighting in the winter taiga.

With regard to a improved SPAT one has to consider the problems of Italian industry and production. Italy began the war in 1940 with equipment that largely would be considered obsolete in most military's. This lay at the feet of both industry and the Italian Fascist Government who chose numbers over quality. This might have been compensated by more effort in producing good troops and leaders, but again they chose numbers and loyalty (in the case of officers) over quality. More often than not when asked by the government to produce improved types, proven foreign designs or even modified versions of current designs Italian industry dragged their heels claiming either labor problems because of downtime to retool or an inability to produce what was required.

Italian industry was far more interested in their bottom line and producing existing designs was the cheapest alternative. When they finally did begin to produce improved (though often still inferior to Allied versions) they did so in ever decreasing numbers. Remember its early 1942, if you are lucky maybe you can put together a design in 6 months, produce prototypes and approve it in another 3 months, its almost 1943 when you begin production. By the time they just start getting to combat units Italy is surrendering. The Macchi C205 is a good example of this kind of problem facing Italy.

The problem with Malta is again time. Italy had a decent chance to seize Malta in 1940 by themselves, or with German help in 1941, but by 1942 the train has left the station and the Royal Navy would salivate at the opportunity to catch the Axis attempting a landing on Malta.

 

As, lwd has said, their are many threads that have dealt with an Axis invasion of Malta, and the search function is most useful in finding them.

Because the Italian tank factories will need to be completely retooled to produce the new German tank designs. Since these new designs do not share any common parts, this process will likely take some time, during which, few Italian tanks will be produced. Hence, few if any Italian tank losses will be made good. Much the same goes for converting damaged tanks to a newly designed TD...Again, there are no factories producing this new TD, hence no parts are available to make them. This will also take time to create the parts necessary. Remember, that this is the Spring of 1942, and time is against the Italians.

These would be good ideas in a pre-war time frame, but at this late date, they are an unnecessary diversion of limited Italian resources.

Simply, because first, no Italian tanks will be produced for the foreseeable future as the factories are converted to producing the new tanks. No production, means no replacement of losses and no spare parts except what is already in stock. Thus, we have Italian tank units that will quickly be running out of tanks given that there are no replacements available, and tanks that break down or are otherwise disabled are scavenged for spare parts. What this means is much higher losses for Italian tank units. Further, Italian tank production was never that high to begin with, and it will further be reduced given that the more complicated tanks will take longer to produce.

Except, in your recent ramblings, you have not been using German designs already available. you have been using German paper designs(Panzer III/IV and various VK paper designs). The Panzer III/IV remained on the drawing board until 1944, well after Italy quit the war. Very few of these designs had even progressed to the prototype stage. Not sure why Italy would want unproven paper designs, when German Panzer III & IV were already proven in combat and readily available. Which is what the Italian military wanted to do, but met stiff resistance from Italian industrialists.

The Italians already had casemate TDs on their existing chassis, granted they were produced only in comparatively small numbers, with even fewer actually seeing combat. Not only that, but these were 1942 designs, that began production in mid-late 1942, with the designs entering combat in 1943. And they did not effect the outcome one whit. A more powerful engine is going to accomplish nothing other than to delay production, as the casemate TDs are redesigned to accept the larger engine.

Except, Italy relies on control of the sea and air to maintain it's African "empire." Without control of the sea and air so that the Axis Med convoys can get through to NA...Even with the best tanks in the world, their African "empire" is doomed because of a lack of supply. The Uber-Italian tanks become no more than steel pillboxes when their fuel runs out, and become coffins when their ammunition is gone.

As it was, roughly 90% of Axis supplies were getting through to NA, and they were still having a rough time with logistics. Now, drop that by 10%-30% or more with the loss of effective air & sea forces.

 

In this instance you substitute Hungarian troops for Italian, but if follows the same general theme of proximity to Finland as a panacea solution to limitations found in Axis Allied troops. Indeed they would have to cross the Baltic Sea just to be able to work alongside Finnish troops, hardly very practical is it?

 

To diffuse any misunderstanding about previous posts, I say now that I was merely participating in Carronade's ideas of how to use Axis allies' troops. How other readers interpreted my wordings, such as swapping Hungarians for Italians in Finland, is beyond my control. Readers alert! Furthermore I am still not participating now.

 

Eastern Theatre. Capture Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and the intact Greater Caucasus oilfields, then dictate terms to Stalin, or better have Stalin assassinated.

 

Gee, I missed this thread the first time around. Didn't anybody notice the rather glaring issue that there was never a "commander of the Axis" for anyone to be? Or anything much that resembled much of an actual Axis "alliance". I mean like, well, there's your problem...

 

In 1942? Both Germany and Japan (along with Italy) have made irreversible blunders that will lead to their defeat. It's too late for them to win their wars. Now, late 1940, or some point into 1941... That has potential. 1942, the Axis is doomed, doomed I tell you!

 

Now, if it were say, June 1940, there's some room to do things. By 1942, both Germany and Japan are doomed. They've irrevocably lost their war.

After the fall of France (June / July 1940) and Japan is still not at war with the US, there are things that can happen given a degree of omniscience and vision that would change the outcome of the war.

If we start there, for Germany there is no planning or intention to invade the Soviet Union. Instead, Germany fortifies their new border in Poland with the Soviets and focuses on defeating Britain. Sure, an invasion is impossible to manage, but the Germans have more than enough forces and ability to crush Britain in North Africa. Malta is bombed out of existence, making it nearly irrelevant.
The Royal Navy suffers serious casualties in the Med, more than they did historically.
The German plan in Africa is to defeat Britain sufficiently to leave them with a resource deficit in the region and then turn it over to Italy and local governments friendly to Germany.
The concept is to force Britain into accepting a negotiated peace.
At the same time Germany tries to keep the US out of the war by not expanding the U-boat war but rather using more Luftwaffe aircraft to attack ships near Britain in the Atlantic. Instead of a dozen or so FW 200 bombers on maritime patrol, Junkers produces a longer ranged Ju 88 like the H model and by the end of 1940 and into 1941 these start showing up where there are now upwards of 100+ full time maritime bombers attacking shipping in the Atlantic.

Britian is faced with a stalemate. The US is reluctant to get involved, and the Germans aren't giving them a reason to get involved.

In the Pacific, the Japanese put down the Army taking control of the government and negotiate a settlement with China that ends any US embargos. The Japanese economy is stable and the IJA is put to "pacification" of controlled areas while the government expands efforts to "Japanify" them. Japan has already 'won' their war, and now they need to consolidate their new territory by making it truly a part of Japan.

While a 'Japanification' of China and Korea will take several generations to accomplish, this becomes Japan's focus.

If Germany can negotiate a peace after beating the snot out of the British in N. Africa and the Middle East with no war in Russia and no US involvement, they end up the superpower of Europe by the 50's or 60's. Control of Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and parts of N. Africa (or expanded Italian control of N. Africa instead) leaves France castrated as a military power, and Britain still faced with a crumbling colonial empire.
Germany can easily forfeit control of the Netherlands and Belgium, and so long as France is on its knees militarily, France too. The French then face the same problem as Britain. Their colonial empire crumbles and they end up a lessor power.

The US doesn't end up at war and the US and Soviet Union become with Germany and Japan the world powers that are aligned one way or another against each other for a third world war at some point.

 

Yeah and have a shave first...Get a hairstyle and get off the drugs...then hop onto a 5 star sub...Travel around the world...Settle where i find is nice. I will become Adam Hilter the obsessive compulsive bohemian artist, styling myself off V Van Gogh. Painting, wine and women...

 

A classic murder suicide...The greatest villian and hero simultaneously...

 

TA Gardner is correct, by mid 1942 the bulk of the Soniet Eastern Command is transferred west, the Soviet Red Army has completed the rebuild and replace those shattered Rifle Division into guards division (not a single guard division was destroyed on the western front).

But let's go back shall we, if I was supreme commander of the combined forces of Germany and no interference from Hitler, I would have ordered Army Group Centre main objective is to take Moscow, there is no deviation from this plan. Moscow must be taken by November. I would also know that by this time winter is a problem, so I would have had a supply of winter uniforms for my troops.

As far as Leningrad is concerned I would have diverted the Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst and the Gneisenau to Leningrad and added their guns to the artillery bomberdment of the city. Then in mid 1942 with the help of Norwegian and Finnish troops begin the ground offensive against the shattered Leningrad Military District.

As far as Stalingrad is concerned, I would have made taking the oilfields in the Caucasus a priority, what I have read that 80% of the total oil consumed by the Soviets cam from there. ( if anyone has any contravening information I welcome it)

 

Not a single Guards Rifle Division was destroyed by the Germans in 1941 because they did not exist in 1941.

Why would you plan for that when the expectation was that the Soviets would collapse long before November? BTW, they had a supply of winter uniforms but did not have the logistical capability to get them forward.

That would be a bit problematic since Bismarck was at the bottom of the eastern Atlantic, Tirpitz was complete, but was still training and was tasked with preventing a sortie by the Soviet Baltic Fleet, Scharnhorst was damaged by the FAA in La Pallice where she was under repair for faulty boiler tubes following Operation BERLIN and was not available again until February 1942, Gneisenau was also badly damaged by the FAA and also was not available until 1942, when the two conducted the Channel Dash in which both she and Scharnhorst suffered further damage taking them out of service for months.

Without Stalingrad the Germans could not reach the Caucasian oilfields, but they also could not reach Stalingrad while maintaining operations in the Caucasus and by the time they secured Stalingrad and established a defensive front there it would have been too late to advance past Rostov...and every mile of advance would increase the vulnerability of the front from Voronezh to Stalingrad to Rostov. They would trade losing forces in an encirclement at Stalingrad for losing forces in an encirclement in the Caucasus.

 

To Rich, that is why I said, as far as I care, I would not go after Stalingrad in 1942, my priority is getting the Caucasus oilfields hopefully intact. Then consolidate, I would after taking Leningrad, Moscow, and the Trans Caucasus oilfields by 1942 then rest and rebuild my forces then make towards Stalingrad with a bigger force than historically.

 

And s

And smoke copious amount of weed