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Japanese weakness in tanks

Discussion in 'Tank Warfare of World War 2' started by Zach gibson, Apr 11, 2018.

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  1. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    The problem was they had that vested interest in China. They can't really abandon Manchuria or their conquests elsewhere in China and even if they could get some sort of truce with the Nationalist they won't with the communist or visa versa. China was a lot like the storied tar baby for Japan.
     
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  2. green slime

    green slime Member

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    China was to Japan, what the USSR was to Germany; The time to strike was "now" rather than "later"; they longer they waited, the more likely the superior size, manpower and resources would prevent any hope of success, if delayed too long. The Chinese were trying to coalesce around a new nation state, whereas in Europe, Soviet industry was expanding, and their military power growing. "Fascism means war" is a very valid maxim. For Japan, a strong, unified China would threaten the Japanese hold on Manchuria (Manchukuo).
     
  3. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Unfortunately, despite WWII Allied propaganda, Japan didn't really fit the "definition" of a Fascist state. It was just more convenient to lump their unique ideology in with those of their Fascist allies. They were closer to being western 19th century imperialists, but that doesn't fully explain their political situation either. Actually, Stalinist Russia and Chiang's Nationalist government had more traits in common with the definition of a "Fascist" state than Japan did. Many of the attempted coups and political assassinations carried out by certain military "cliques" during the 1930's were actually attempts to force Japan to adopt a more Fascist political system, though it was not stated in those terms.

    This wasn't going to happen anytime soon. The only thing keeping the Nationalists (KMT) and Chinese Communists (CPC) from open war was the need to oppose Japan. As it was Mao favored sitting on his hands and building strength for the post-Japanese conflict with Chiang and the KMT, while Chiang did not engage the Japanese as aggressively as he should have wanting to stockpile American aid and build his forces for the war to come with the communists. Much of Chiang's strength was allied warlords that would likely turn on him if there was no outside threat to be faced. As actually happened in 1936, when Zhang Xueliang of the Fengtian Clique and Yang Hucheng a Chinese warlord allied with the KMT, kidnapped Chiang and forced him agree to form a united front with the CPC to oppose the Japanese. For a time they considered executing him. Zhang Xueliang's father, the warlord Zhang Zuolin had actually been allied with the Japanese until they assassinated him for failing to effectively fight the KMT. This drew his son into the KMT camp
    Chiang's government, by definition was more fascist than Japan's, having more traits in common with Germany than Japan's government did. Hitler stated admiration for Chiang's centralized government and was impressed with their anti-communist credentials. Chiang's government had killed between 300,000 to over a million Chinese during the "White Terror" purges. Germany from 1920 until 1937 had very close ties to Chiang and the Nationalist government. The ties remained strong from the time of the Weimar Republic through the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler actually increased aid and cooperation discarding the Weimar Republic's attempts to at least appear neutral. They helped finance and build Chinese arms factories, built railroads, trained and equipped KMT military forces, and provided military advisors.

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    Hitlerjugend in Nationalist China

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    Koumintang official H.H Kung meets with Hitler
    Kung met with Hitler, Goring, and other Nazi officials and secured a 100 million RM loan from Germany. At the time of the breakout of the second Sino-Japanese War in July 1937, China was Germany's third largest trading partner. Hitler's opinion and support of China wavered when the Japanese demonstrated their military capability and decisively defeated KMT forces, time and again. He switched sides and recognized Manchukuo in 1938 as an independent nation, recalled Germany's military advisors and stopped future arms shipments to the Nationalists. Relations between Germany and China continued until 1941 and they discussed resuming cooperation, but the war situation for both nations precluded this.

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    Nationalist Chinese Soldiers, remind you of anyone?
     
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  4. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    Glancing sideways at the teetering unread pile.
    A few Japan-related tomes in there.
    This may be why I still do forums after all this time. They nudge you about things. Remind that something may be more interesting than first thought.

    I shall now ignore the unread and probably buy something from Abe about Japanese Imperial structures... or tanks... which may or may not get read. o_O
     

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