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Jeep or Humvee?

Discussion in 'Post-World War 2 Armour' started by GP, May 20, 2004.

  1. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    The obvious question is: why?
    Defend your viewpoint! :grin:
     
  2. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    I'll take the Jeep...
    Why, because the Humvee is like a moving sign saying ''BLOW ME'' :bang: and because the US Army is gonna replace them :wink:
     
  3. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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    ONE THING I REMEMBER

    The Hummer can be parachute dropped or slid off the back of a moving airplane without a 'pallet' or crate..

    (memory)

    no link
     
  4. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    Wouldn't that break the suspension???

    It seems impossible, if it doesn't land on his wheels it will be useless.
     
  5. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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    nope- that was the point-

    the vehicle was built around the suspension

    and as far as it goes, If memory serves right, it is designed so you can just cut off any damaged pieces..

    I think it is balanced to drop evenly, but the 'first bounce' is the part that will tip it into damaging a fender or something.

    Been awhile, it was contoversial because of its cost.

    Source: some 'newsmag' TV show.

    I saw em dropping it..

    I saw a 'bounced ' one too...

    Maybe the 'mini moke' did sort of the same, but it needed a cheap pallet..

    MINI MOKES should have been part of this thread along with Landrovers, which if you know your history were developed using an old Jeep..
     
  6. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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    >slid off the back of a moving airplane

    Running low over a runway...

    Kicked off the back while a few meters off the ground.
     
  7. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    ''and as far as it goes, If memory serves right, it is designed so you can just cut off any damaged pieces..''

    In school I learned for mechanic and that makes no sence...you can cut of a damaged peice from every car, that doesn't say it doesn't have to be replaced..

    I still can't believe the suspension is strong enough to soften te impact, especially because one of the reasons they are gonnan replace the Humvee is because it can't carry enough weight, that doesn't say any good about the suspension either.

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepubli ... vee24.html
     
  8. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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    I am talking about damaged body parts or fenders etc that are obvioiusly NOT necessary mechanical parts like engines or transmissions.

    As you are a mechanic then I am sure you may have seen a car driven after it has been in an accident.

    And I am sure you understand that things like engines and such ARE necessary for a car to run.

    The necessary parts are stuffed away, protected, more or less.

    The parts that might get damaged in a drop, like windows, doors, bumpers, lightbulbs, running boards, radios, antennae, grill work, door handles, exhaust mufflers and fenders are not really necessary for the vehicle to operate as transport.

    Does that make sense?
     
  9. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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    >suspension is strong enough to soften te impact



    That was the whole point in building it- the single purpose in replacing the Jeep.

    The competiton was held with that being the single most important and primary deceiding factor in determining the winner.

    period
     
  10. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    The competiton was held with that being the single most important and primary deceiding factor in determining the winner.

    Was it???
    That the jeeps suspension couldn't carry much weight isn't the ONLY reason that it was replaced.
    For example:
    It was to small
    Could flip over pretty easy
    Couldn't carry enough troops/equipment (not enough room)
    And its off-road performance wasn't good enough anymore.

    I think it was not really difficult to find a GOOD replacement for the jeep.
     
  11. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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    >The competiton was held with that being the single most important and primary deceiding factor in determining the winner.


    yep :bang:

    and I ain't got nothing more to say about it...

    take it or leave it,

    http://www.google.com/search?q=Humvee+p ... rt=10&sa=N

    look it up for yourself..

    Stonewall shrugs, shakes head in disgust and walks away
     
  12. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Nope
    http://www.mowag.ch/En/07_BilderEn/HMMWV.html
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... _n12417667
    http://www.off-road.com/hummer/general/hmmwv.html
    http://www.amgeneral.com/vehicles_hmmwv_background.php
    Which indicate that drivers for the programme were cost, maintainability, mobility and modularity.
    Of these sites coming up on the google search Stonewall listed (none of which go into detail about the actual requirements or final competition), the third one is rabidly anti-HMMWV and indicates that the hummer cannot be carried by MV-22. Surely a major error in a new programme if air-lift is a priority?
    http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/hummer/humhisty.htm
    Five months of testing if the only criterion was air-drop capability??
    And regardless, if that particular vehicle, ie the the AM General design, was picked on that feature ALONE, it does not mean the HMMWV programme was based on that requirement. Whichever company's vehicle had been picked it still would have been Hummer.
     
  13. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    Thanks Oli :lol:
     
  14. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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  15. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    They don't say it will be dropped without a ''crate'' (?) surrounding it :roll: :lol:
     
  16. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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    It does not say that you were not living here in the USA back 20 years ago where you would have seen the Sunday night newsmag "60 minutes' where they questioned the cost of the HUmvee and the army trotted out pictures of the 'no crate' test..

    They estimated 20 % losses and showed tape after tape of it being dropped..

    That, me bucko, was the story.

    No matter how they try and re- write the story now..


    clear? over!

    Roger that?

    mebbe I will find some support/ maybe not...
     
  17. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    I don't believe it will survive a drop without somekind of crate around it :p

    BTW, 20 years is a long time ago, are you sure you remember it correctly, wasn't it somekind of test to show what will happen to a Humvee when dropped without a crate???
     
  18. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Dropping it on a LAPES run is not a major problem given good suspension. The films I've seen show the Herc coming in at 6-10 feet altitude or thereabouts. Not a big deal for a good set of springs. Remember that it's the vertical height ONLY that counts. If Christie could (and did) run a tank off the top of a two-storey building in the thirties and keep going when he hit the ground then there's no problem with the springs on a hummer.
    But that was not the sole requirement for the HMMWV programme...
     
  19. Stonewall phpbb3

    Stonewall phpbb3 New Member

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    That was how it was sold to the US taxpayers..

    $10K fer a bare bones Jeep vs $73K (todays #) for a Hummvee

    film after film, tape after tape, blah blah blah after blah

    That was the point... It would bounce 7-12 meters ( 23-40 feet)

    20 years... If you saw the film you would remember..
     
  20. Man

    Man New Member

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    Not necessarily.

    If it falls at the same speed a human does when parachuting, I don't see why it should break (unless it's really weak).

    Slightly off topic
    I have landed from fairly high heights on my motocross bike (from maybe 5 meters in the air) and the suspension does just fine.

    _________________
     

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