Junkers Ju 390 and it's trip to New York 1944......help !

Ooooooppppppp sorry, didn't think the boss would be right there as you viewed the pages..... really my wife is almost the same way. She just looks at the book shelves and goes, ......not more books !....... to me.

Speaking of books as I want to stay true to this thread, have you Stevin or anyone out there heard of this title and wher it might be obtained ?
Dr Sönke Neitzels Der einsatz der Deutschen Luftwaffe über dem Atlantic un der Nördsee 1939-1945, Bernanrd und Graefe Verlag, 1995.

Evidently Dr. Neitzel is quite the professor and has done considerable research on U boats and their naval activites.

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Heh heh heh, Stevin--I had a similar problem when I was traveling around Germany with my friend Susanne. We had just arrived in Goslar and had just parked the car--stuck change in the parking meter and walked maybe 100 feet or so crossing the narrow road coming from the old part of town.

Susanne had just made it safely across the road when a jerk in an Italian sports car (Red) and convertable)), came zipping from around the corner--slammed on his brakes--gave her the Italian flipoff sign, then he realized she wasnt alone and turned around to see me giving him the American middlefinger flipoff sign--then he zoomed away. (I defend all my friends--even if it meant that I could have been arrested)

Back to subject though.

Just after this "International incident" happened and not more than maybe 1 minute--I happened to sniff out an EXCELLENT Military and antique shop owned by Herr Menzel.

Well, Susanne was like your gal on the subject: "On no you dont" and I was Heh heh heh, "Oh YESssss I am". I know where you come from believe me.

[ 20 May 2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

 

Guten Abend gentlemen !.......well almost anyway. found the Sönke Neitzel title at IBIS books for a cool $35.88 since it should go for around $ 50.00 smackcer's !!
pluas about 4.00 shipping. A nice big book. Just in from Heinz Norwarra's book Großsen Dessauer, Ju 390 Junkers choose the most simple path and enlarged six-engined Ju 290 based on the mechanical assembly technique the Ju 390. Junkers was issued the contract for two protypes, since this was ease of application the first protype flew as early as 1943. Not only the Luftwaffe interested but Lufthansa as well which was laready thinking postwar transatlantic air transport service and later japan. In Japan, the a/c was considered for it's potential for striking America's western coast from Japan, since Japanese plans for such a/c were still in the early project stages.
FAGR 5 from November 15 to December 15, 1943 flew 20 ops and 1 rescue mission. Within a 11 day period, 6 convoys were monitored, totalling 238 merchant ships, a battleship, 10 destroyers, 9 corvettes and 20 patrol ships. Estimated total tonnage was 1.7 to 2 million BRT. Of this, KG 40 flying Fw 200 and Ju 88's sunk 18,000 BRT. The U-boot arm directed to these convoys met with no success. The losses of FAGR 5 during the war from 1943 till 1945 were a total of 9 Ju 290's lost in action.

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Thanks for the support guys! I kinda know how she feels...but I just don't want to go there! When I find a gem, I want to take it home to daddy...

Geez, Erich, If you read that you might want to ponder what might have happened if the Luftwaffe was given the equipment and mandate to TCB in the North Atlantic...I am sure the Allied AFs would have rebuild Iceland into one gigantic airfield, but still. Think also of all the US bombers that might have been intercepted as wel, as they were flown from the US to ETO...But then again, these LW birds wouldn't probably have made much in the way of fighters.

Good find Erich! There you go...One of these gems. Now try and find a place for it on those over-crowded bookshelves!

[ 20 May 2002, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

 

I've got ya on the book shelves Stevin. My wife says we need to move to a bigger house with 1/2 of it all in shelves......I'm nutz to say the least. got another huge book on the Ju 290/390 I am looking for as well.........

will share more tomorrow on the unit FAGR 5

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Footnote to the above......after further reading, and a correction.....

FAGr 5 flew 29 missions and 1 rescue op from 15 November to 15 December 1943. During this time the unit with the Ju 290 variants logged 415 flight hours and flew 120,350 kilometres.... geezo ! FAGr 5 determined though that the Ju 290 was limited in range to intercept British/US convoys. They also stated that the Ju 290's defensive armament needed to be further increased. From this several more single 2cm weapons were added and the cockpit cabin was re-inforced with 20mm armor.

more.......later

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hi Erich: Here is another book that available through Barnes and Noble, "The Sea Eagles: The Luftwaffes Maritime Operations 1939-1945.

 

Steve :

The publisher, author and ISBN # if possible... ? The title is vaguely familiar but that is it on my end.

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Greenhill Books, Peter Charles Smith, #1853674427

 

Got it, thanks Steve......this helps much

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.......adding more to this thread.

FAGR 5 was formed in May to 1st of July 1943. Formed at Achmer FAGR 5 was formed for Fliegerführer Atlantik in behalf of Befehlshaber der U-boote as a long range maritime recon group to scout out and locate Allied Atlantic convoys as early as possible, and then shadow them until U-boats could be assembled and close in for the kill, as well as Ju 88's and Fw 200's from KG 40. The unit as a whole was supposed to be equipped with 40 Ju 290's, and at no time did it reach it's complement. The most the unit ever had was 17 in mid-44. All Ju 290s of the unit were equipped with FuG 200 Hohentwiel radar and the Neptun 216, later 217 rear warning radar for defence of approaching Allied fighters.
Missions usually lasted about 17 hours, with only a few a/c being sent on ops each day due to weather conditions. Some weather recon flights were also flfown with Kriegsmarine meteorologists aboard.
2./FAGr 5 was the first unit to be placed in the air by mid November 43 and did the lion's share of recon duties. 1./FAGR 5 did not come into play until possibly the first week of January 44.
Usually the Ju 290's flew in pairs on recon duties at the altitude of 1600 to 3300 feet, and at the higher altitude could observe Allied convoys up to 100 kilometres.
Thanks to friend Larry for sharing some brief history of this unit with me........

more to come....

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It appears through further research that.....the Hohentwiel radar set could locate targets some 60 miles distant when FAGr 5 flew at the 3280 foot altitude. One source mentions that during the time of it's maritime missions, FAGr 5 sent back info to Fw 200 Condor units and the U-boot arm to send over 10,000,000 tons of Allied shipping to the bottom of the ocean.......whoa !

Able Kommandeur of the gruppe was Major Hermann Fischer reciver of the DK.

1./FAGr 5 kommanded by Major Josef Augustin, also a DK träger
2./FAGr 5 kommanded by Hptm Karl-Friedrich Bergen and then in February 44 till may of 45 / Hptm. Georg Eckl
4./FAGr 5 kommanded by ? , the unit was suppose to also have the Ju 290 like the other staffeln but in reality flew the Ju 188F-1, Ju 88A-4, Do 217E and the He 111H-1.

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* a BIG BUMP *

Holy baloney batman ! Just received over 50 pages on FAGr 5 today from Germany. Will translate and relate to all soon......whoa !!

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Great! Keep us updated! I for one would love to hear some more about the missions of this unit. I could even take it in deutsch, but maybe that would be unfair towards the other people on this forum!

 

ahhh...I feel a book coming up!

[ 04 October 2002, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

 

Andreas, Stevin.......thanks ! yes I'll be updating this thread later in the month. Trying to defipher the small hard to read text, and some info on the radio beacons/homers dropped by this unit for the U-booten. will be orering some more specific on this strange, almost unknown device.
A book on this would be nice, but I await the German production being worked on now.

E

 

How about some warm-up...



Ju 390

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/lju2901.htm



Ju 390



Ju 290

 

Notcie the huge rearward facing hatch on the bottom of the 390.....

the last pic was a preflight Ju 290 ready to be accepted by "my" unit FAGr 5. All light blue with grey uppers.

 

Great looking planes!

But I guess the only plane to fly to the US was the "Alles kaputt" Ju 290 A7!

http://home.t-online.de/home/d.nix/film/d-leser15.htm

Ideas on Me-264, Erich?



Performance:
Max. Speed: 565km/h (351mph)
Max range at 217mph 9,321 miles

Only two were built.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/db/ger/ME264MES.html

 

The "coal-fuelled" version of the 264 mentioned in your link refers to the awesome 6,000 hp steam turbine which was being developed by the Germans for aeronautical use and ultimately intended for this plane. It used a mixture of powdered coal and gasoline.
Beautiful model.

[ 20. March 2003, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Knight Templar ]