Kar98k vs Mosin Nagant

Weren't sniper rifles usually hand-picked from the factory? Granted that the Mauser was in general a better weapon, you could find Mosin-Nagants that could out shoot a Mauser and vice versa. I don't think it really mattered all that much to snipers. As one US sniper put it, everyone could be taught to shoot, the hard part was the fieldcraft and cunning required for the job.

This might be wildly off topic, but having been to a couple of mil forums where old cold warriors congregate, the Spetznatz was much respected in its days by their western counterparts. They weren't what the fanboys made them out to be, but back then, when they had the resources, they were a force to be reckoned with.

 

That is correct,its crude and rugged indeed - why i like them Every single m91/30 sniper rifle was selected by the armorer for the best accuracy - they took much much more time in making these than your standard m91/30 - the trigger pull on these originals is perfect,nice and smooth. And the k98 is built better than a standard m91/30 no questions asked - each one shows high craftsmanship by their maker. And the k98 is better manufactured indeed,Stalin had that thing about "Quantity has a quality of its own" and in WWII alone around 25 million mosin rifle's were produced

I will look forward to reading Allerberger's book then,The main historian that claimed his book was made up is a Russian that runs a military website,I can understand that he may just not like whats said in the book and out of anger claims its fake,Most likely the case. But since you said its an accurate account Im going to purchase it now and hopefully learn more about Allerberger,I really do enjoy learning about his feats,its too bad he has recently passed away

I have found that article on the German snipers rule to use Russian sniper rifles,its not an interview,it is in fact someone writing they read this in Allerbergers book - do you remember reading something like this in his book?

In the Red Army the snipers were in fact more of a designated marksman which the m91/30 PU worked good enough for,these marksmen were to take out targets faster than your basic infantryman could. At long range say 800/1000 yards I will agree a k98 with a 6X scope will work better,much better.

Actually I was not being biased at all when I posted,True American special forces are trained in a more orderly fashion,Spetsnaz training is rough and extremely dangerous - they in fact even tie the recruits to a chair and torture them in training just crazy stuff,and they do turn out as some of the most dangerous soldiers on earth. Also the Russian Federation was never and is not short of weapons - there is millions of Ak's and thousands of SVD's,Putin reformed Russia a lot when he got in office. I in fact have 2 good friends from Russia who have fought in Chechnya,one who was in Grozny and he did tell me Spetsnaz get their pick of any weapon they like-as the last photo shows the sniper has chose an m91/30 PU and the VSS silenced Vintorez- he is in the 45th ORP (Reconnaissance Regiment) and a VDV sniper - The M91/30 PU is a main issued weapon in the 45th,Quite a few go for the m91/30 PU sniper rifle for its reliability and accuracy. He has also told me their sniper's are not happy with the SVD which is another reason they are going for the m91/30 PU.
It was also put to use in the Afghan war in the 80's - This sniper for unknown reasons has his scope temporarily removed (probably lighter when on patrols,the PU scope can be removed and put back in in just a few seconds with no tool needed ,the scope base can be seen though



Triple C Your correct,a lot depends on who is behind the trigger, This is from an interview with a Soviet female WWII sniper veteran"-
A.D. What was the farthest target you hit?
Near the Dnieper, a machine gunner and a sniper.
A.D. What was the distance there?
Across a field, they were sitting in a shed. Probably a kilometer, if not more.
http://www.iremember.ru/content/view/31/74/lang,en/

Check out this guys video - using an m91/30 PU he's hitting targets out to 800 yards,Ive gone to 600 using mine and it will hit a target over and over

YouTube - Mosin Nagant M91/30 PU Sniper 5,6,7, 800 Meters

To sum it up I agree the scoped k98 is more of a sniper rifle especially with those 6X scopes,where as the m91/30 PU is more of a designated marksmans rifle just like the Dragunov is.

With best regards

 

They are selling Mosin Nagants at Cabela's for $99.00 now. A great chance for someone interested in firing WW2 era small arms.

 

This is not true however later in the war, Speer himself pointed out how Germany was actually outproducing Soviets in rifles. (so obviously, when he took over), the problem wasn't rifles, the problem was the raw materials for the bullets which Germany lacked on very heavily.

SO, i'm not sure on if those photos are early or late war but, what i can say is that if the kar98k burned through more bullets than Nagant then you can make up your own mind on how helpful it was.

 

No I can't say that I have. Having read the book several times nothing like that is written in it.

What is written however is that some ordinary German soldiers, namely some machinegunners, would use captured sniper rifles in an effort to get themselves considered for sniperschool back in Germany. The reasons being that it was considered a less dangerous profession (unless caught), as the ordinary machinegunner was a high priority target for the enemy and thus that was an exceedingly dangerous profession, whilst another reason was that trained snipers in the German army were some of the best equipped and longest lasting units, often recieving equipment usually only officers were issued with.

 

Rifles, maybe but not likely. Scopes? No. This guy says it:

Historic Sniper Scopes - A comparative Study

AJ Barker (German Infantry Weapons of World War 2) says it as do a number of other credible historians. Why should the Germans not have a shortage of telescopic sights when they have shortages of virtually everything else?

Ammo is a seperate problem and that too is a problem for the Germans. However, on the subject of snipers I would say that any scope that had reasonable accuracy to 500 to 600 yards would be sufficent for the vast majority of marksmen and snipers in the WW 2 period. Firing on targets beyond those ranges would require a very high level of skill, a much better scope and, a far better rifle and ammunition than was issued in the field during that period.

 

Too bad that guy got his history all wrong then.

I suggest reading Peter R. Senich's book The German sniper: 1914 - 1945.

The Germans had standard sniper scopes in their Zielvier & Zielsechs scopes made by Zeiss, Hensholdt & Dialytan. The ZF4 was not an attempt to field a standardized sniper scope, it was meant purely for semi- & full automatic weapons (hence the ease of adjustment) and only mounted on the FG42, G43 & StG44 rifles. Trained Scharfschützen were as standard equipped with a K98k with either a Zielvier or Zielsechs scope mounted on a turret or side rail mount, the G43 was considered a secondary weapon used for closer range engagements and very useful against multiple advancing targets.

The facts don't seem to support you seeing as German 6x scopes were good out to 1,000 meters according to the snipers themselves, and a skilled sniper could hit torso sized targets out to 800 meters without fail. Matthäus Hetzenaeur achieving his longest confirmed kill at a range of 1,100 meters.

Most snipers would however wait opening fire until the target was within 400 meters, the reason being that they were better able to positively ID the target at that range.

As for the number of scopes available, they weren't really in that short of a supply for the Germans except for early in the war.

Furthermore the ZF42 scope was a very rare 5x scope, and not any form of simplified design, so I don't know where you got that from Gardner??

Finally the Germans didn't use Soviet scopes on their rifles during the war, it was the other way round, the Soviets using a lot of German made scopes, many of which had been delivered to them before the war.

When the war began the Soviets suddenly found themselves in shortage of scopes and therefore had to start making their own, resulting in simple designs such as the PU series scopes. Unfortunately for the Soviets they didn't have the precision optical manufacturing equipment that the Germans possessed, which had been in a league of its own since before the great war, and thus Soviet made scopes often suffered from edge distortion and unclear optics.

 

On it's surface this looks highly unlikely.

Source PLS.