Korean war ...

So the fighter pilots sent would also have to be linguistically gifted enough to communicate with each other in Chinese (or Korean) during a dogfight? That seems even more improbable.

 

I don't understand? The Ruskies would not have fought alongside the Chinese or North Koreans, the pilots would have fought as small integral teams seperate to the other forces.

As for the "hand signals" between the US and Ruskies, you have seen top Gun haven't you?

FNG

 

Russian pilots were taught a few phrases in Korean, but soon abondoned them and started to speak russian. Plus, as someone pointed out they had a euro complexion. American pilots became well aware of them and nicknamed them "honcho's"

 

that would be me. Yes I suppose the US could monitor there plane to plane and plane to ground communications which would be in Russian.

As I keep saying, the US sushed it all up at the time as confidential. I bet they had loads of solid evidence of Ruskie involvment.

FNG

 

Re : Russian Pilots in Korea -

Have a read -

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/RussianPilots.htm

Even got the guy's name & service history.

:smok:

"After all this performance, wasn't a surprise when, on April 22 1952, Colonel Yevgeni Pepelyayev was awarded with the Golden Star of the Heroe of the Soviet Union. A particular characteristic of the ceremony was that Pepelyayev have civilian clothes, and in the speech there was no mention of the actions why he deserve the award. The need of keep the secret caused that such story repeated 21 times more, with each Soviet pilot who were awarded during the Korean War".

 

They did know for shure that Russians flyed ower Korea sky,it is no doubth.They keep it silence from same reason as Russia did not get any significant help to NK ,to avoid larger conflict with possibilites for nuclear war.

 

Another quote from that link -

"It was impossible psychologically in the heat of battle to use a foreign language you hardly knew. So after a week or two we just decided to ignore the order. The top brass started complaining, so I told them: ‘Go and fight yourselves!"

 

its hard to imagine a russian fighter pilot in the stalinist era telling the topbrass "to go do anything" nor for that matter, would any yank,uk or aussie pilot ,then or now (except for in the movies ,of course)

 

Particularly hard to imagine if you've been brought up to believe, as many westeners have, that all Soviet subjects were mere automotons with every ounce of free will and original thought hammered out of them - who could barely inahale and exhale without being ordered to.

I suppose if it were a choice between certain death in the air and possible time in a salt mine then it might make more sense.

PS. I didn't write that article and can't verify its content (it may well be fake) - however I am certain that there were Soviet pilots in Korea.

 

Russia admittied in the 90's that they were involved in North Korea

Their pilots also only flew Air Defence over the North... They were never involved in any incursions into enemy airspace... This might explain why no dead Russian airmen were ever found by the CIA (as far as we know) although the Russians claim to have lost about 300 pilots in the war...

There is one report of a suprised US pilot claiming to have seen a white-skinned-blonde-haired pilot leap out of his smoking mig and parachute to the ground...

 

And the russians made sure that the americans got no russians alive. One downed pilot shot himself, while another was strafed by his comrades

 

I think in reference to the Chosin Reservior battles, Griegs' comments are "Spot-On."
20,000 allied troops (of which 17,000 were 1st Marines) faced-off against over 120,000 CCF troops. The Marines mauled seven of the tne CCF divisions so badly, they never saw action again during the Korean War.
A fighting retreat when the CCF's orders were to annhilate the UN troops to the last man.
At one point in the breakout to Hungnam, the Marines 'liberated' US Army trucks that had been abandoned. Later, the US Army wanted them back. They were told they were now USMC property.
At one point in this action Chesty Puller is quoted. An officer ran-up to report that they were now completely surrounded by the enemy. Chesty replied "Good. Now we can fire in all directions!" Chesty would likely say it was no fighting-retreat,but that they were simply attacking in a different direction.
Keep studying the Korean War sinissa. You obviously have much to learn.

Tim

 

True Tim,i dont know much about Korea war, and i get interest for him after i watch "Tae Guk Gi: The Brotherhood of War" a extraordinary war movie. But all of my researches sayed that US troops based on air superiority and heawy weapons usage.On light infantry fight chinese troops was more skilled ,and they attacked rapidly,what suprised US troops who considered that CN army was poor trained and equiped. Some parts of US troos fight with great skills,but owerall army was pushed back. So for rest im here on this forum

 

us army troops in 51 were often teenage draftees while marines were volunteers and had a high percentage of ww2 veterans ,not supriseingly the marines made a better showing when surrounded by a zillion chinese troops ,who ,btw were very well trained and like all asian peasants tough as nails ..

 

one of the reasons of the mauling of the americans, was that they were unprepared for war, bad training ( some of them where stationed in japan and under mama-san) they expected to be back with then in no time, did not expect the NK to be so aggressive, during spring 1949 the soviets had estabilshed in great secrecy a NK army that was the second most powerfull in asia, more than the american forces in asia, more than the chinese comunist armies, and second only to the soviets army in siberia
in june 1950 america armed forces where stripped to the bone, just the basics, only 8 divisions in the usa army, and all of them understrength
so the main objective of the NK was established: complete surprise attack
the us had only a few hundred advisors and the ill preparde SK armed forces where not match for the well trained NK forces.
but that change when the american have their back against the sea in the port of pusan, they established the pusan perimeter, no more retreats, was the order
and that is another story!!!!

 

I suppose all these unprepared soldiers just became really concentrated, eh ? lol

The americans also had the air power. The north koreans had ww2 era soviet planes, while the americans had a high number of crude jet fighters with much better pilots and maybe even numbers. I also understand that merican anti-tank weapons and tanks, especially the M26 pershing, began to make quick work of the NK tanks after a few months.

 

the problem was how to bring them in time,remember after ww2 nobody want to talk , heard of participate in another one.
and to muster reinforcements they have to dig every old depot, clean and refit the weapons they desperately need them and then to send them in time!!!!

 

CSP:
When the NKA rolled across the 38th parallel, the US had little "in-theatre" with which to stop a T-34/85.
The only bazookas available were 2.75inch weapons that would not penetrate a T-34. Artillery outfits did their best to slow them down... they depressed the muzzles of their 105mm howitzers and fired H.E. shells at them point-blank. Best they could hope to do was knock-off a track or stun the occupants momentarily.
After the Pusan Perimeter held, help finally began to arrive... and 3.5 inch bazookas.
My dad was a Korean War draftee. Many of his classmates were as well. Many of them didn't come home. Dad told of seeing rows of GI bodies. He commented they hadn't been in-country long enough to get their new field-jackets dirty.

Tim

 

a little know detail: the NK did try to invade by sea at the port of pusan.
and they were stoped by the only advantage that the SK had over the NK: a better navy force
the NK send a 10,000 steamer loaded with 600 soldiers who were to attack pusan and cut the only life line to japan, but when the steamer was moving toward the port of pusan the only modern vessel of the SK navy, a patrol boat, PC 701, under commander Nam Choi-yong discovered and challenged the steamer and after a running fight the steamer sunk and with it die the 600 NK soldiers, and with this victory SK was saved

 

Well, something stopped those tanks. After a few months encounters with T-34/85's were rare