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Marshal Edward Smigly-Rydz

Discussion in 'Leaders of World War 2' started by Skua, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. Castelot

    Castelot New Member

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    It's all the german's fault, they simply invented new war rules and didn't bother asking us.... :roll:
     
  2. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    The bounders! :evil:
    That's just not cricket, what!

    ;)
     
  3. Izaak Stern

    Izaak Stern New Member

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    No, Gents. No cricket here and no cricket in Poland, either. How Smigly-Rydz would have played cricket, we can´t say.

    But even a quick look at the map shows the hopelessness of his position.
    The Germans were ready for just that kind of war, not for fighting fortified obstacles. The German mobility and air superiority created chaos from the start. Precisely like in Barbarossa.

    How could Smigly restore order? Nobody could have done it. It didn´t help that Poland´s army was poorly equipped, even if well trained. And the quality of their training was shown in B of B, f. ex. Happily, many young Poles chose to fight on and fled the country.

    The very decision to defend Poland was not a result of the recently signed treaties. It was the political must after over 100 years without a statehood. This long period of humiliation created a kamikaze-like patriotism, so there was no question: fight or not. Not even a question: accept a humiliation of handing over the Corridor or not. That much was certain for any Pole, treaties or not.

    Sure, the success against the Soviets in 1920-21 gave some people a feeling of invincibility, too.
    I wouldn´t say Smigly could be blamed for all of that. Even a genius would have lost in his boots.

    Being just a patchwork of former peripheral provinces of Austria, Russia and Prussia during their industrial revolutions (as well as being one big battlefield of WW1), Poland did not have an industrial muscle, yet. Hence the relatively poor weaponry.

    Also, nobody knew about the secret part of R-M treaty of August 23th.

    What could have been done better, was intelligence. AFAIK it was neglected. OK, they stole the Enigma machine without the Germans suspecting it and did some mathematics on it. But, knowing that the war was coming, even if not certain, they should have made better recon work and find out about the main directions of attack. Study German preparations and tactics for years and not just get surprized by the “blitzkrieg”.

    The trust in immediate western help was a naïvete of the uninformed parts of the population. The ones in the know understood the hopeless situation. But, as said, there was a popular resolve to fight and foreign minister Beck was a loudspeaker of it. He had no choice. I don´t know how much his talents had helped secure the western guarantees. My feeling is though, that the British and (less resolutely) the French would have decided to stop the Psycho then and there, anyway, knowing that Poland would certainly fight.

    The problem was, that the popular will to fight was not there yet.
    Apparently, what was needed to create it was to get hit themselves (exactly the same scenario as in USA in 1941: Roosevelt wanted to go and “We the People” didn´t. And then they got hit.

    Sorry for the long monologue (I am not trying to emulate Hitler). The subject matter was just too complicated for a few words´ slogan.
     
  4. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    Polish equipment -

    Infantry equipment was on a par with Germany (similar uniforms, same rifles, different machineguns)

    Artillery - Poles were at a disadvantage

    Tanks - Poles had Tankettes :roll: . The few 7TPs they had were as good/better than the German tanks they encountered, and the Tankettes with AT guns in put up a good fight. But, outnumberd, often outperformed, out-manouvered...

    AT guns - even.

    Aircraft - Germany scores. Poland had a great mid-1930s airforce. Germany had a great late 1930s airforce. However, the Polish planes, operating from dispersed emergency strips, put up a heck of a good fight.

    The campaign.

    Smigly-Rydz was acting under the impression that France would honour her Alliance by invading Germany or something similar.
    Therefore his basic plan was to put up a fighting retreat until then - above all to avoid a decisive battle that could wreck Poland's army before France could help.
    Sadly, France did not help, and the Soviet intervention turned out to be intervention on behalf of the Germans, not against them.
    The remains of the Polish army could do nothing more than retreat into Romania.

    Obviously, where I say 'France' the alliances were with 'France & Britain', but it seems that Poland was looking more to France for military intervention. Probably because France had a decent-sized army...
     
  5. Castelot

    Castelot New Member

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    Yes, that was a sad paradox of France's diplomacy/strategy vis à vis Poland in 1939.

    On one hand the politiciands/diplomats wanted to honour the alliance with Poland(Finally, after they already had abondoned the czechs a year earlier), on the other hand, the army, led by defensive minded octogenarians couldn't do much.(Besides the "alibi" offensive in the Sarre in september 1939).
     
  6. Izaak Stern

    Izaak Stern New Member

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    I haven´t read memoirs of Polish leading circles, but they should have known that any immediate help was not to be expected. Maybe only attacks from the air. As I consider the political situation now, Poland served as a bait or trap to catch Hitler and get a good reason to finish him off. Sure, everybody hoped for peace, but Poland was to be his last feat.
    What do you think?
     
  7. Izaak Stern

    Izaak Stern New Member

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    To come back to Smigly-Rydz himself. He was a man of honor and great talent:

    from Natiomaster Encyclopedia:

    "Rydz-Śmigły completed studies in philosophy at Jagiellonian University and Arts Academy in Krakow. In 1910-1911 he attended reserve officers academy in Vienna. In 1912 was one of the organizers of the Polish paramilitary organization Riflemen’s Association.
    (...)
    During the Polish-Bolshevik War in 1920, commanded Polish Armies in several offensives. Among other victorious engagements, achieved complete annihilation of the 12th Red Army, captured Kiev, played major offensive role in the famous Vistula Battle and blocked of the escape routes for the defeated Tuchaczewski’s Army.
    (...)
    Commander-In-Chief of the Polish Armed Forces, took the complete responsibility for Poland’s military defeat in the September 1939 campaign.
    (...)
    Rydz-Śmigły and the Polish government’s crossing of the Romanian border saved Poland from surrender and allowed Polish soldiers to carry on their fight against Germany in France and then in England.
    (...)
    In October of 1941 Rydz-Śmigły, in strict secrecy, came back to Warsaw to participate in the resistance movement, as a common underground soldier."

    Poles are truly remarkable people. I am happy I know this country so well.
     

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