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Military Archaeology

Discussion in 'Military History' started by GRW, Jan 4, 2004.

  1. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    A suntan and archaeological sightseeing?! I'm insanely jealous!
    It certainly does look like a cracking source on the subject Ice. We seem to be in the usual position; no new guides for years, then everyone's producing them. Suppose I shouldn't complain though.
     
  2. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    This was pointed out to me by Pillboxesuk, obviously a bit more observant than I've been lately!

    Lunan Bay Scaffolding Defences

    This is in Angus, which is another treasure trove of wartime remains.

    Cheers Ian! :cool: [​IMG]

    [ 15. December 2005, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]
     
  3. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Something different this time. This is the old Starfish bombing decoy just outside Kilsyth, Central Scotland....

    [​IMG]

    These decoys were designed to simulate blackout breaches to encourage German bombers to unload on open countryside, rather than built-up areas. This one protected the former burghs of Kilsyth (to the south) and Denny (to the east), both of which had many iron foundries in the '40s.
    A close-up of the entrance....

    [​IMG]

    ...And a view from the inside outwards...

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    This entrance passage divided the concrete bunker in three. On the left was the crew room....

    [​IMG]

    As well as this escape hatch, there is also evidence of furniture having been wall-mounted.

    The outside of the hatch. The control bunker was earth-covered both for protection and camouflage.

    [​IMG]

    The room on the other side contained generators, mounted on these plinths...

    [​IMG]

    There are parallel lines of stones in the field opposite, about 300m away, which may represent the positions of the actual decoy apparatus itself, but the snow was lying too thickly today to let me look for them.
    Most Starfish sites used conglomerations of scaffolding poles to mount their apparatus, which could be anything from electric bulbs shining through plywood to represent a skylight window in a house, to burning fuel to represent foundry furnaces.
     
  4. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Recently visited the former Royal Navy Armaments Depot at Bandeath, near Stirling. Built in 1916 (illegally technically, since it used labour from the onsite POW camp!), it was one of a series of depots serving HMS Cochrane (Rosyth Naval Base) until closure around 1980. The depot has been an industrial estate since 1983, but still has around 95% of its wartime buildings.
    This is a firewatch post, there are several of these around the lower part of the site.

    [​IMG]

    This is one of the many ammo stores now used by small businesses...

    [​IMG]

    The walls are thicker than the roof, to deflect any blast upwards. The store is raised because the depot was built on a loop of the River Forth, and despite extensive berms around the perimeter, it is still liable to flooding. I know of at least one air raid shelter which has literally sunk into the ground since 1992!
    This is the remnants of a square of chemical 'paint', sensitive to poison gas and intended to give early warning of an attack by changing colour.

    [​IMG]

    This was a standard feature on wartime military buildings, but Bandeath is the only place I know of it surviving.
    The next pics show a dilapidated wooden hut, securely penned in by ten foot high reinforced concrete walls....

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The hut is what was called the 'frangible' type, ie it was just sturdy enough to keep out the weather, but in the event of an explosion it would disintegrate easily to minimise blast damage to the surrounding area. I have copies of contemporary Navy photos of the depot from around 1959/60, which show the interior of a wooden hut used to store sea-mines. Wonder if this was one of them?
    According to the NMR there is a pillbox on the western perimeter of the depot, but I couldn't find it on this visit.

    [ 31. December 2005, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]
     
  5. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Very interesting photos, Gordon.

    Making me feel quite chilly - time for a wee dram, I think ! ;)
     
  6. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Wee?! Typical southerner............ [​IMG] :D [​IMG]
     
  7. pillboxesuk

    pillboxesuk Member

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    Here's some fun if your at a loose end...
    [​IMG]
    Make Your Own Pillbox

    On a slightly more serious note, I've added some updates to my UK Invasion Defence site.
    Latest Update

    Enjoy!

    P.S You have prob already seen the beach scaffolding pics
     
  8. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Cheers for that, Ian. Good to see the site going from strength to strength. :cool:
    There are a couple of loopholed walls in the Edinburgh area, but I don't have photos just yet. I'm also led to believe that there are the remains of a flamme fougasse installation somewhere in the Central Belt-can't confirm it yet, but I would love to find that!
    Love the pillbox model!
     
  9. pillboxesuk

    pillboxesuk Member

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    Flame Fougasse!, now that'd be a find.

    For those who don't know these comprised of forty-gallon drums containing a mixture of tar, lime and petrol. They were buried on the roadside and a string was pulled which would fire a small explosive charge to ignite the contents and spray them over the road creating a huge impenetrable and long-lasting wall of fire.

    Btw Check out this paper model of a type 23 pillbox.Type 23 pillbox paper model (pdf file)
     
  10. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    This isn't WW2, but it's still a worthwhile cause.
    Shorncliffe in the south of England has a remarkably well preserved Napoloeonic Wars Redoubt, and also some fantastically well preserved practice trenches from WW1.
    Both are under threat from developers. You can read more here
     
  11. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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  12. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    I was totally unaware of this book, Gordon...may have to check it out, for obvious reasons. ;)

    Previously all my knowledge of the 'unknown' WWII tube has come from 'After The Battle's pioneering efforts.
     
  13. pillboxesuk

    pillboxesuk Member

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    Yep I got a copy last year.

    A good read, lots of pics, but was hoping for more pics of the interior of the Admiralty citadel.

    See link below:

    Admiralty Citadel, London
     
  14. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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  15. pillboxesuk

    pillboxesuk Member

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  16. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Aw, superb Ian! :cool: That's my kind of archaeology.
    What type of pillbox is that-don't recall seeing one before?
     
  17. pillboxesuk

    pillboxesuk Member

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    looks like a variant in the type 26. unusual entrance.

    type 26
     
  18. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Yes, that is interesting. The Northumberland coast ( the sand dunes between Seahouses and Lindisfarne ) also has a number of pillboxes which disappear and reappear as the sand shifts.
     
  19. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Cheers Ian.
    True Martin, there's one perched on the dunes next to an old Coast Guard lookout between Seahouses and Bamburgh. It also has an enormous crack right through two sides of it, as the foundations have been well and truly undermined!
     
  20. pillboxesuk

    pillboxesuk Member

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