Mince pies and presents

I think it is a shame that Christmas in much of the western world is becoming more about gifts and less about its true meaning.

 

Well...

While there is nothing wrong per se with celebrating his birth (although his death & ressurection are surely more relevant...), why do it on December 25th, and using gift giving, christmas trees, decorations, Santa Claus, etc etc?

What the Bible teaches us as Christians is to celebrate God/Jesus with our whole lives all the time. Oh, and it also drops in a line or two about not celebrating false festivals.

 

Of course, I will only be cheering this criticism of the Christian religion, but Ricky is totally right. The origins of Christmas lie with the Germanic midwinter celebrations, not with the birth of Jesus.

 

This is not a criticism of the Christian religion!
It is a criticism of how people have, um, adapted/applied it.
Like Easter - why do you think we have Easter Eggs & the Easter bunny?
Why do you think that Easter Day is not actually the day after Passover (or 4 days after, depending on whether you prefer the crucifixion or the resurection) as it chronologically should be?

Why do we even have the big festivals? The Bible was certainly very clear about the Jewish festivals, so why does it not detail 'Christian' festivals?
Before you all start thinking that I am a Puritan who is against dancing & the theatre, think again . I just do not like to see such a polluted version of Christianity on display.

Always strange to be arguing alongside an aethiest!

 

I should have added "as it is today", wherein Christmas is widely accepted as the celebration of the birth of Jesus (which it is not).

Well, we both have our principles I guess. I refuse to call Jesus "Christ" ever since I learned that this means "messiah". After all, he isn't my messiah.

 

Christmas is the day designated to celebrate the birth of Jesus, since we don't know the actual date. And yes, Roel, he is your Messiah (mine, too, I'm delighted to say!), even if you refuse to accept Him. That is, of course, your right, but it's still...very sad.

 

Yes, but the date wasn't exactly randomly picked, if you know what I mean. This is what Ricky was trying to point out. Like I said before, "little is known for certain on the figure of Jesus of Nazareth"... :lol:

 

Yes he is Roel - that is the whole point.
Jesus died for you.

 

And who designated it and why?

And why do we put up holly, ivy & mistletoe?

 

If you pardon the pun, the Bible is not Gospel.

Well I thought is was funny.

 

Because it is pretty and I can get kisses.

 

Exactly.
The original route is that you then give a berry from the mistletoe to whoever you have kissed.
What does this have to do with the birth of Jesus? Anybody?

 

I'm sure someone would have kissed Jesus in the manger, is that close enough.

 

Boniface, or one of those apostles who were working on the hearts & minds of the Germans...

Indeed. What about the christmas tree, with lights in it and all. And Santa Claus, like I said, is quite a violent distortion of an older Dutch tradition, which itself is a distortion of an Italian saint... It's drifting further and further from anything really Christian.

However, this is a topic on celebrations, so let's stop the talking about who died for whom...

 

Well, it is a topic on a celebration of Jesus, so that does apply!
We were just answering the point you made.

 

OK.

By the way, what is a mince pie and what does it have to do with Christmas? Pardon my ignorance. Or better yet, remove it!

 

A mince pie is a little savoury pie.

pastry shell, filled with 'mincemeat' - not real minced meat, but all kindsa stuff like raisans/sultanas, etc.

It is traditionally eaten at Christmas, and dates back to Early Modern times (I think - possibly a little earlier). Essentially it is a dessert-type dish that you can easily make in mid-winter, as the filling is preserved fruit, and because it is baked in pastry it does not taste quite as bad as ordinary preserved fruit (especially if you have been eating preserved fruit since September!).

 

Originally contained minced meat.

Fortnum & Masons traditional mince pies still do.


Just thought you would like to know.

 

Mince pies are very common in England during CHRISTmas. In fact, when the British public were asked to name one item that they asociated with CHRISTmas, mince pie was the second most popular, (after CHRISTmas tree)

 

Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, son-etc, I see that the English name for Christmas involves the word "christ". However, in my native language, it is called "Kerstmis" whereas christ is called christus (as in Latin). So I have no problem with this word.