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More bad news for UK gun enthusiasts...

Discussion in 'The Guns Galore Section' started by Simonr1978, Jan 7, 2008.

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  1. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    So you were able to defend yourself.
    And the 23,851 British women raped in 2016? Were they able to defend themselves?
    Only in 2,689 cases the perpetrators were convicted. Most of the others disappeared without a trace.

    It's nice to know the criminals are protected from bodily harm, too bad their victims are not.
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    And in the gun-loving US, there were upwards of 321,000 rapes on average each year.
    Victims of Sexual Violence: Statistics | RAINN
    Does this mean more guns equals more rape...

    You can spin figures however you like.
     
  3. Mutley

    Mutley Active Member

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    Good on ya Gordon. At the end of the day it's fight or flight. When I was researching my g. uncles involvement in the Spanish Civil War I was taken with the phrase 'better to die on your feet, than die on your knees'. I don't know if you agree or not, but I still wouldn't want to see guns becoming the norm here. They have there place in the hands of the trained i.e. the police and farmers for vermin control.

    Your experience made me think back to an incident when a drunken ex had me by the throat, I found a Hay's lemonade bottle came in very handy. Needless to say he never lifted a finger to me again. Had he not been concussed, he would have received far worse from his mother.

    Wm. you have to understand that Britain already has a violent undercurrent, it lurks everywhere you go. Gordon may help me out here, but Glasgow used to be murder capital of the world at one point. It's not the idyllic island I fear you believe it is. And spray against a potential rapist is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, especially if you were grabbed from behind. Your best bet is to scream 'Fire' if you can.

    Recent statistics have revealed women or should I say rape cases, have been dropped by 30% as the victims are not receiving the support they require. In addition to this, 10% of current court cases were dropped for the same reason. Changing gun laws are not going to stop somebody intent on raping somebody.

    Andy Capp & Flo.jpg
     
  4. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Although pepper spray is illegal in the UK under Section 5 (1) (b) of the Firearms Act 1968.
    Anything you carry in public that you intend to use as a weapon, for offence or defense, is illegal, even rolling pins.
    In the UK you are not allowed to harm your rapist.

    The only allowed weapon is:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    According to United States Department of Justice it's about 173,000 victims of rape or sexual assault (completed rape is much less than 173,000 - the statistics are incomparable anyway).

    The US is a much larger country, and because of their ghettos (in cities invariably ruled by Democrats) and the mass of gangs (estimated at 33,000 and over a million members) much more dangerous.
    22% of all American rapes of female victims are gang rapes.

    The point is not that rape happens.
    The point is you the so called liberals, so bent on denying to the people the right of self-defense
    will you be there when another rape or home invasion happens?
    If not why are you constantly trying to make people defenseless?
    Why are you forcing people to live in fear?
     
  6. Mutley

    Mutley Active Member

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    We've slipped in the world ranking of murder rates thankfully according to this article 25 Countries With The Highest Murder Rates In The World

    Was surprised to find even in 2005, Scotland had the highest murder rate apart from Finland of all places Scotland has second highest murder rate in Europe And according to this article at the end of it, it indicates that a California study at that time, was likely to put Scotland with the highest murder rate.

    And Billy Connolly here describing the last time terrorists came to Scotland. Even when the terrorist was on fire, he still took a beating from the locals.

    And in John Smeaton's own words addressing any potential terrorists, "We'll set about ya"
     
  7. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Correct. Fortunately, the Travis Bickles are few and far between over here.

    True enough. My second wife came from the East end of Glasgow; the things she considered normal behaviour in an argument used to horrify the rest of us.
    It's always amusing to read the comments section in an online paper edition that carries stories of drunken bank holiday mayhem, and see all the Yanks horrified at the idea of people getting glass tumblers stuck in their faces in pubs.
    And the same ones tell us we "need" guns.
     
  8. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Dry up. No-one's "denying" anybody anything. If there was any mass desire for gun ownership, the country would be full of pressure groups pushing for it. The fact there isn't should tell you something.
    Are you:
    a) Paranoid.?
    b) Ten years old?
    Because that's how you're coming across.
    Here's an idea; why don't you stop trying to tell us how to run our own country, and concentrate on making your own paradise on Earth first. That's the stock answer from American members when Brits pass comment on guns laws in the States, so here's a reminder that it works BOTH ways.
     
  9. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  10. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I've heard just the opposite advice here in the US. Varies from state to state though and over time as well.
     
  11. rprice

    rprice Member

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    Do gun bans really work? Today's shooting in Alexandria (greater Washington DC) took place in a gun free zone. The law(s) against guns in DC did absolutely nothing to deter the Bad Guy...

    The law abiding victims were unarmed except for the two police officers who happened to be on the scene.

    Edit: The shooting was in Alexandria, VA, which is just outside of DC.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  12. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    No, they don't work because they don't address the real and fundamental problem - the criminals, who really don't mind gun bans.
    Not only because when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns - but mainly because all they need are knives, machetes, baseball bats, and numbers. It will be THEY and you, alone.
     
  13. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    So what do we do about the criminals? ....Execute them?
     
  14. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Except, the shooter was not a "criminal." He had two reported run ins with the law - one in which the charges were dropped, and the other which resulted in no charges being filed. The shooter also had a valid Illinois FOID(Firearms Owner Identification) card. So, this guy was in no way, shape, or form, a "criminal.

    Ummm...Virginia is an open carry state, not that a lot of people actually do it. A concealed weapon requires a permit.

    Of course, the shooter was also a resident of Illinois, so their gun laws also come into play.

    Further, we can really put a twist on this and say that: This staunch and loyal Bernie Sanders Democrat was only exercising his Constitutionally given right To put down those despotic Republicans who are ruining the country. After all, so I am told, that is specifically why the 2nd Amendment is there - to prevent the despots from taking over the country.
     
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  15. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    The 2nd Amendment makes fighting despots easier, but guarantees nothing.
    Laws don't prevent anything, crime happens despite them anyway, they simply make fighting crime easier.

    That shooter is a criminal because he broke the law, the one saying murder is forbidden. As simple as that.
    What do you want them to do? Enact another law that forbids murder?

    Even worse is the usual knee jerk reaction of the so called liberals and progressives.
    Someone with a permit commits a crime (which happens rarely) - let's confiscate all guns.
    Someone flies his drone into a power line - ban all drones.
    Someone said something stupid on Internet - mass warrantless spying on every our citizen (the UK), censorship of Internet (Germany).

    In the end everything will be banned, everything censored - this is how liberty dies, not with a bang but with a whimper.

    More: Concealed Carry Permit Holders Are The Most Law-Abiding People In The Country, they commit crime as frequently as police officers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Very few laws, in and of themselves, are designed to prevent anything...What said laws do allow is for is punishment if said laws are broken. It is this punishment, that some will say, is the deterrence, not the law itself.


    Unfortunately, that is not your argument. The Alexandria shooter had been convicted of no crimes that would have prevented his owning a firearm, hence, at the time of gun purchase, he was a "law abiding citizen." I will add the caveat that not enough is currently reported about his purchase of the M-4/AR-15 that was used in the shooting to determine of it was a legal purchase or not.

    Rarely? That is a matter of opinion...Over half of the guns used in "mass murder" shootings were obtained legally. However, in overall gun crime, only 20% were committed by the legal owners of the gun used. 20% is not exactly what I would call rare.

    That still leaves us with 80% of gun crime being committed by illegally obtained firearms, now how are these illegal guns obtained? Roughly 40% are obtained through theft from legal gun owners or gun shops. However, since most states do not require that gun owners immediately report the theft of a firearm, it is hard to pin down an exact percentage, considering the fact that some 40% of stolen guns were only reported as stolen after the gun was used to commit a crime.

    Another popular way of obtaining guns is through the use of "straw purchases" - where a Person A purchases a gun for Person B. This is a tough one to catch, since Person A passes all background checks, and if the gun is used for nefarious purposes, Person A can always report it as "lost" or "stolen" after the fact.

    Then, there are always a few disreputable gun dealers who are willing to sell to any one who can pay. A few studies have pointed to a small number of gun dealers who sell guns that tend to be used in crime. These dealers can be trouble to trace thanks to the 2003 Tiahrt Amendments.



    Actually that was only the last in a long series of problems that West Hollywood and California in general had had with drones and drone operators...Drones acting as remote "peeping toms," drones flying into aircraft and helicopter flight and landing patterns, etc. Basically, a couple of idiots ruin it for everybody.


    Might have something to do with all of that fear about terrorism since 9/11...Just a guess.


    Because denying the Holocaust is a good thing, and child pornography is everyone's God given right .


    Liberty begins dying with a whimper as soon as the first law is passed...Your "freedom" is already being impinged upon. Do you feel up to living a life completely devoid of laws for anyone?


    Except no one is talking about concealed carry permit holders...Nor does the article, or the report cited in the article, point out that Indiana, which has the highest percentage of adults with concealed carry permits(15%) also has seen it's murder rate increase from 4.1% in 2010, to 5.6% in 2015. Nor does it mention that Alaska which is 2nd highest with 14% of adults having concealed carry permits has seen it's murder rate rise from 4.1% in 2011, to 8.0% in 2015.

    Crime has been dropping for about 20 years now, and there are about as many theories for this as there are criminologists...An increased number of concealed carry permits is just one of a great many.
     
  17. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    So you're the one who believes everything he reads in the newspapers.
    Ever think that the reason the internet is such a cesspit these days is because every time someone mentions "controls", useful idiots like you scream "censorship" and immediately start talking about conspiracy theories?
    You're on ignore, I've better things to do with my time.
     
  18. harolds

    harolds Member

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    The fact is that straw purchasing is against the law but in many places that law isn't being enforced! If we can find a Taliban leader in the wilds of Afganistan then we can find a dealer and straw purchaser in Iowa or wherever. If nothing else their FF license can be revoked, putting them out of business. I've known several dealers here in WY that were put out of business due to playing fast and loose with the paperwork. Straw purchasers can't work without a willing accomplice with a FFL. Let's use the laws we've got! Instead of concentrating on guns, let's concentrate on incarcerating criminals!

    Most of the proposed "common sense gun laws" will do little to prevent most tragedies where the perps are suicidal. These law's only purpose, I believe, is to make it harder to get a firearm legally so as to reduce the number of gun owners so as to reduce our political clout, as well as to say "We did something". A few years ago the Justice Dept. put out a report that said that unless the Government put in place severely draconian gun laws there would be no effect on gun crime.
     
  19. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    A background check takes minutes to run and the FBI has up to 3 days to decide...How many Taliban leaders were caught in the wilds of Afghanistan in 3 days from the start of investigation? It took how many years to nail Bin Laden...Forgive me...3 days.

    Yes, it is a simple cost-benefit analysis, the gun dealers figured it was better for them to break the law than to obey it. So what do you propose? More "draconian" gun laws to hold the gun dealers responsible.

    Your welcome to suggest that to the NRA, but I don't think that they will change their stance on repealing Tiahrt.

    How does a magazine limitation make it harder to get a gun?
    A semi-auto ban would still allow you to get a gun...Just not the one you want.
    Is an AR-15 really necessary for hunting? Or are you just that bad a shot, that you need 30 rounds to take down one animal...

    There are several "common sense" gun law proposals that are just that...common sense.
     
  20. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    The problem is some that appear so aren't and some that don't appears so are. At the same time people on one side claim they all do and on the other that none of them do.
     
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