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Most Evil men of WW2

Discussion in 'Leaders of World War 2' started by KBO, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Although I know fairly little about the man I would not consider Doenitz to be in the evil category, although he was Hitler's heir it has to be said that he did capitulate rather than carry on the struggle to the complete destruction of the German people as Hitler wanted.

    Petain, Mosely, Duke of Windsor and Quisling I would all put into the "Misguided" category.

    As for most evil, there really are too many to choose between and in some ways to attempt to determine who was the most evil in terms of numbers of deaths responsible for, degree of direct involvement or methods used to kill seems almost callous and somehow cheapens the lives they destroyed.

    "True, although there are still those in Russia who think Stalin was the greatest thing to come down the pike since sliced bread."

    Unfortunately there are still those who think of Hitler in glowing terms. I can only say for certain in Britain and Germany, but I assume that there are similar attitudes elsewhere in Europe.

    I think there are a couple of names missing so far that deserve mentioning, the reasons should be self explanatory.

    Hoss, commandant of Auschwitz Extermination camp.
    Beria, in charge of the NKVD under Stalin.
    Goering, for running the Concentration Camps. (oops, just realised he's already in!).
    Goebels, Minister for Propaganda and Public Enlightenment.

    I'd also like to make a possibly controversial nomination for the consideration of the forum;

    Sir Arthur Harris.

    There are some others I would like to include but whose names elude me.
     
  2. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    There appears now a whole category of evil men who are in some way connected to the mass extermination of the Jews. However, this whole genocide can be traced back to the Wannsee conference, and the most evil man was of course the leader of this conference: Reinhard Heydrich. All the others in this specific field of evil are merely his "subordinates" in evil.
     
  3. 2ndLegion

    2ndLegion New Member

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    In the United States there is a major republican political figure Pat Buccanon (SP) who denies the Holocaust ever happened and has defended sever caught nazi war criminals from being extradited on grounds that they are "Good Americans".

    Racism, and denial is international, there is not border were hate ends.

    It isn't just the jews that are facing those problems which I find even more tragic.

    Sudan is killing it's black christian population, the Kurds have just recently survived genocide in Iraq, nationalist hate groups are springing up all around Russia, on top of what I mentioned hate groups like the KKK are still powerful in the US, around the Arab World fanatic organizations like Al Queda hate everyone that isn't among them, the Armenian Genocide is almost forgotten, hate groupd are ressurecting all around Europe too which can be shown by the recent attack on a German Mosque,and I am only saying the really unforgivable things so far.

    I didn't mention France because Chirac has been doing some very controversal things to stop the hate/ignorance, and although I don't agree with how he's doing it I agree that the source of hate and ignorance must be targetted at it's source no matter what that source is.
     
  4. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    Although we do get news reports that attacks on Synegogues are increasing in France.
    (not trying to claim that France is worse than anywhere else)

    It is sadly true - hate is never far away. :cry: :cry: :cry:
     
  5. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    Going back to the Stalin/Hitler comparison.

    Stalin was arguably mostly motivated by the desire to stay in power. He was infamously paranoid, and most of his great purges were for this very reason. Kulacks - did not want a middle class developing, as that would disrupt his version of Communism. 1939 purge of the army. etc.
    Even his treatment of the non-Russian population of the SSSR can be seen as trying to prevent any possible rebellion by brutalising them into submission.

    Hitler set out his agenda quite clearly in Mein Kampf. Anybody who has ever read this will agree that it is a stupendously boring book. The writer only ever gets excited about 2 things.
    1) when discussing the supremacy of the German race and how to keep it pure.
    2) when discussing small boys wearing shorts. (Hitler Youth, for those who have not guessed! :D )

    So, you have Stalin who was controlled by his paranoia, and whose propaganda showed him as the kindly uncle of all good Soviets, or Hitler who was controlled by a desire to have a world clear of all but Germanic races, and wasn't afraid of telling anybody.
     
  6. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Sad? I'll give you sad! One attack on a mosque is a despicable action indeed and hardly any punishment can be bad enough fot those who did it. But the Netherlands have just gone through the (morally) worst period in a long time, and I think it's sad that you don't mention this here.

    On November 2nd a controversial filmmaker who had quite rudely criticized the Islam was brutally murdered in the street. He was shot at several times from across the street, whereupon the shooter crossed and shot him a couple more times from up close, and then stabbed him several times more. This all happened in quite a busy street in Amsterdam (I've seen it, it ain't no back alley).

    Following this murder came the most violent wave of Muslem-hatred seen in the Netherlands. Mosques and Islamic schools were burned and violated by the dozens. In response, some Muslems thought it a good idea to burn churches, too. Debates on freedom of religion were thrown wide open and few Dutchmen trust their immigrated or second generation Muslem countrymen anymore. Politicians with negative views on the Islam are in hiding and don't dare show their faces in public. Some of them even feel it isn't safe to attend the Chambers of Parliament, like they're supposed to, being Members of it...

    Now THAT is sad.
     
  7. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Unfortunately Hatred is always easier than acceptance, and the vast majority of the population of the world are simply too ignorant or too lazy to question what is being told to them.

    The result is exactly the kind of thing you describe Roel, there is always a section of any population ready to commit violence at any pretext, and many of the rest will simply go along with whatever is popular or preached by the newspapers.
     
  8. DesertWolf

    DesertWolf Member

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    I know about whats goin on in holland from what friends there tell me and from the news. I can but agree with Roel that is extremely sikining that people would go to such lenghts of hatred.


    One can ask but WHY?? Cant people see what is happening, all this hate this racisim and this alienation??
     
  9. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    what about the situation of the MILLIONS of mexicans in the usa?
    since 9/11 the ilegal are handled like terrorist or criminals, even for a mexican turist they are not better, you need to sumit your finger prints and they took pic like a mug shot. just because the inland security:
    first this:

    the terrorist enter to the usa with visas issues by the diferent consulates we enter her ilegaly waiting for the worst and hoping for the best.

    they came to study, we came to work.

    they came alone, some of us bring the whole family with us

    we came to build a better future for us and they came to destroy it :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
     
  10. 2ndLegion

    2ndLegion New Member

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    I heard of the filmaker being killed, however I didn't hear about the wave of hatred it caused. I agree with you that is very sad.

    me262 I think I mentioned that, the racist police forces in my opinion fall under the category of a hate group.

    Also people who hate one group often are sexists.

    Just ask some Afghan women did they prefer the Taliban or the new Afghan Government.

    Sexism is another gigantic international problem.
     
  11. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    you also can look at the next situation:
    on the construction employments you do not see any anglo or a very few african american the vast majority are latinos, on the agricultural industy you only see latinos picking the crops, not a single anglo or African american( a few years ago in presidio ,texas the vast mayority of the crops where lost because lack of labor, the owners of the fields even ask the INS to issue some work permits for mexican labor to pick the harvest but all was in vain, the loose the crop and enventualy all the american cinsumers, you know prices) but still they threats us as a security risk for the country, perhaps as a scapegoat to theirs mistakes in the past?, i do not know!!!
     
  12. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    I think, personally, that a lot of Americans fear that Mexicans are abusing the freedoms of their country to gather money and then leave the country again for their own home, that way gradually sucking the American economy dry and making an empty shell of the American dream. I don't think this is true, and overall I think it's a despicable philosophy to keep the American Dream available only for Americans, but this is often the way people think.
     
  13. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    how come you get that idea? most inmigrants try to stay in the country if possible, unless you get in to the hands of the INS.
    basicly the main fear, an unfunded one, is that we take away the jobs of the americans, but what we do in take the jobs nobody wants and mainly underpaid jobs, no anglo or african american want a job of only 5.50 per hour, we are a cheap labor force and many american take advantage of this, so after been underpaid we are exploited
     
  14. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Of course. I said this was something I think many Americans feel, not something I think is so. Remember, the American south where Mexican immigrants are likely to arrive is a rather conservative, right-wing area and therefore ideologically opposed to an overflow of immigrants.
     
  15. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    The same way the English South East is biased against practically everybody, especially Eastern Europeans...
     
  16. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    did you know that latinos is the biggest minority in the USA?
     
  17. 2ndLegion

    2ndLegion New Member

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    That is an argument I consistently use against the anti-Latino groups, I ask were they think all their cheap goods come from, however they just wave it away, saying things like "We aren't talking about expenses we are talking about immigration".

    When I argued on behalf of Chirac when his legislation against hatred was passed and I mentioned that similar legislation was passed in the US to protect black people, however the response was "We aren't talking about that we are talking about France".

    Whenever I argue on behalf of Israel on grounds that their war with the Palestinians has been a lot more humane and has had a much lower cost in innocent life then Russia's campaign I got "We aren't talking about Russia we are talking about Israel".

    That is one way people keep bigotry going they refuse to acknowledge evidence presented to them (I noticed that from experience), and seperate everything.

    Oh btw for anyone who doesn't know the first time the jews were killed in large enough numbers for it to be a Holocaust was during the early reign of Richard the Lionheart, and it was motivated by the idea that the jews killed Jessus, the massacre of the flower of a generation of english jewry should be plenty to convince people encouraging that stereotype through Holywood is racism, but if it isn't I will list some other (But not nearly all) attacks on jews that resulted from that stereotype.

    1.Edward I expelled all the jews from his kingdom

    2.Philip the Fair tortured jews, and expelled them from France after killing the Rabbis and stealing their money to make sure they would not rise anywere else

    3.St Louis King of France expelled the jews

    4.The Spanish Inquisition tortured to death or expelled thousands of jews that had been living in peace with their neighbors for generations motivated by "killing the ones who murdered our lord and saviour Jessus Christ"

    5.Godfrey de Boullion the man who took Jerusalem tried to kill the jews in his lands before going off to war, but didn't have the time (Because the rest of the Crusaders started advancing early but the fact is still there)

    6.The riots in Mainz killed the jews in that city

    7.The sack of Jerusalem

    8.The Justinian Code removed jews from all positions of power, authority, and limited the types of jobs they could hold to manual labour and it endured for centuries in the Byzantine Empire.

    The list goes on and on and on and on and on, but still the ability of people to declare Passion of the Christ is not racist despite facts like these being brought up is amazing, and it shows how deeply these problems are rooted in peoples minds.

    Even if these firmly planted images hurts the person who believes in them they are not willing to change their minds.

    For example Queen Victoria spent her entire carreer as head of England fighting against the feminists.
     
  18. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    latinos are all over the country, from Texas to New York
     
  19. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    2ndLegion: declaring that the Jews killed Jesus is not racism in itself, but among those who worship Jesus it can be easily turned into racism. Since it appears that the Jews were indeed responsible for the capture of Jesus and therefore indirectly for his execution, the truth should not be fought, rather fight the reactions to it. Historical facts of things that happened thousands of years ago should never be a reason to turn racist today. You can be certain that none of the Jews alive today, nor those alive when Godefroy de Bouillon killed them, nor those living in England with Richard the Lionheart, nor those whol lived in Europe in the forties, killed Jesus.
     
  20. DesertWolf

    DesertWolf Member

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    What is very ironic is that islam has been the relegion that lived most peacefully with the Jews while jews and muslims alike were hated by Christains. Its really funny to see the tables turned and now you find Muslims killing Jews and Jews killing Muslims.
     

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