Most Overrated aircraft of WWII?

Intensive for sure, at least for the Navy. I don't have any info about the Army pilots. The Samurai of the sky mentality was part of their undoing though.

I can't remember the source but I read that the Americans soon realized that although the Japanese pilots were very aggressive and brave, they lived for individual combat and not teamwork and tactics. They learned that they 'took it personal' and wouldn't break off a fight when it was apparent they were at a big disadvantage and couldn't win and could easily be goaded into attacking.

 

The Japanese suffered badly from attrition during the Guadalcanal campaign because of the distance of the island from their bases, and the lack of air sea rescue aggravated the issue. But the shorter ranged allied planes could not even have attempted what the sort of operations they did.

 

from my memory, maybe actually from Caiden's Samurai, I read where they would do gymnastic routines like Spiderman .....remember tactics and training were a big factor....Tired Soldier's point on distance to target is critical ....US has a friendly field close, in sight even...I thought US carrier aircraft landed at Cactus when in trouble and/or when carriers were lost or damaged...if Cactus was not available, many more US aircraft would've been lost....no? also, when the Japanese carriers went down, they did not have a friendly airfield to fly aircraft to... one example is Greg Boyington...he went down near enemy territory, and was captured, where as if near Cactus, he would've had a much better chance of being picked up by friendlies
however, if you have 2 evenly skilled pilots F4F vs Zero, position is critical...whoever is on top has an advantage......they can break off or attack...the F4F at big disadvantage if it is below the Zero on intitial contact..
skilled aggressive Zero will kill unskilled F4F.......skilled aggressive soldier/ Marine with mediocre weapon will defeat unskilled soldier with modern weapon

 

If at high enough altitude the F4F can still dive away from the Zero even if the Zero is initially above it. The Japanese did start the war with quite a few pilots. The attrition in the Solomons wasn't all that predictable. From what I recall reading about Midway most of the IJN aircrews were rescued (although the planes were obviously lost). The same can't be said for their carrier based ground crews from what I recall. It's covered in some detail in Shattered Sword. The failure to train enough pilots was not simply a matter of blind faith but logistics as well. The prewar IJN training program was extensive but consumed

 

exactly, the F4F cannot not be the aggressor, with advantage, if below Zero

 

Depends in the F4F pilot sees the Zero. If he does, he can turn into the Zero for a head-on pass. Here, the advantage lies with the more ruggedly constructed F4F.

 

How does the Corsair rate? I loved that Pappy Boyington series when I was young.

 

maybe if they are within MG range.....they would have to spot each other at ''close'' range......but, if they both see each other at once, depends on distance at sighting....Zero has option to attack or not, and speed advantage...the F4F can't catch the Zero if F4F is climbing......F4F loses mucho speed and agility while climbing......Zero can keep distance and decide when to close, and will have greater speed, greater agility, no? and F4F rate of climb much lower than Zero....2303 fpm vs 3100 fpm.....?
the Zero pilot would have to be Harrison Ford if the F4F was able to get accurate shooting off....the Zero is just not going to go in a straight direction if he detected the F4F.....the Zero is not going to be sitting like a duck, no? correct me if I'm wrong, but usually in WW2 fighter v fighter combat, they are twisting and turning...up down...etc...they don't fly ''straight''
basic air to air combat <>height has advantage.....
sure if they go head to head, F4F better...sure, if the Zero pilot, who knows he has speed, etc advantage, is going to dive directly at the F4F's .50s...! ? .but in reality, the Zero is going to outmaneuver the turtle...with the greater rate of climb, he can fly over the F4F, out of range, and get behind if the F4F is climbing....easily...are you saying the Zero doesn't see the F4F??
if the Zero is twisting at all, then the F4F has to follow---and loses even more speed in the climbing turn...mucho speed lost in turning and climbing...if he doesn't follow, he has to go to the deck....because he's turning his tail toward the Zero who has speed and height advantage---the pilot with the greater height has option to attack or not.....lower pilot better be a better pilot or he's dead if he attacks...climbing and turning at same time is a death wish

 

Height can and usually was an advantage but in the case of an F4F turning into the attack of the Zero the F4F doesn't need to make as significant of maneuvers to keep pointed at the Zero as the Zero has to make to try and prevent a head on head pass. That is unless the Zero wants to break off which it can still do. I have to play out the details on a sim or game but I suspect the advantage passes back to the Japanese plane if it's an equal number of planes (where the number is greater than 1) on both sides.

 

so they don't see each other until they are in MG range?? if the Zero is weaving, circling--which he will,-- the F4F doesn't need to make significant maneuvers to keep nose toward Zero?? !! he can break away and circle back...keeping distance...and still keep gaining height adavantage.....
the Zero can loop and roll away and toward and keep distance....

 

the Wildcat is below and turns up toward the Zero....then what happens? they are at point blank range already? how far away are they?

I grabbed my Baa Baa Black Sheep, which I've had for over 35 years, and luckily just found,.....Boyington said he could spot the enemy at about 20 miles....one of his men could spot at 40 miles.....I don't see an F4F, while climbing, at distance getting close enough to a Zero for good shot...or getting any advantage position...it's going to be really, really difficult for the Wildcat not to get into a disadvantageous position, much less a shooting position

 

How about the German V rockets?

 

How did the Zero 20mm compare with the .50 in hitting power? ...Would think the .50 had longer legs even though it was a smaller round, but a 20mm is-what- double the size and prolly contains a lot more explosive.
Were most Zero kills from the cannon or mg?

 

Bronk, you made a blanket statement that was in error, and are now twisting and turning to get your way out of it.

They would not have to spot each other at close range, just that the Zero has committed to the attack.

The Zero does not necessarily have the speed advantage, only the potential for a speed advantage once he commits to the attack and dives.

The F4F pilot is not attempting to catch the Zero, he is trying to shoot down the Zero that is diving to attack him. Agility is not needed when the target is coming straight at you.

The F4F pilot does not need to turn in for a head-on pass until the Zero has committed to the attack. So, the F4F pilot can just wait for the Zero to commit...

The Zero will have greater speed, yes...Greater maneuverability, no. As the Zero's speed increases, it's controls stiffen making it harder and harder to maneuver as speed increases. The Zero also had a fairly low "never exceed" air speed(356 knots/410mph), so care would need to be taken not to let air speed build up.

If the Zero is twisting and turning in his attack dive, then his shooting is not going to be very accurate is it? So much the better for the F4F in the vulnerable lower position.

Fighter vs. fighter combat involved a lot of twisting and turning because, usually, the attacker was behind the defender, and the defender was trying to shake the attacker off his tail. That, or both opposing pilots were trying to achieve the most advantageous position to take a shot.

At some point, the Zero will have to commit to the attack and dive. If the Zero does not commit, then the F4F lives to fight another day.

Not that easy. The Zero is more maneuverable in low speed at low to medium altitudes, but here the Zero is diving at high speed - it has lost it's maneuverability advantage. Further, at a distance, the Zero will be hard pressed to get behind the F4F, since it has a much greater distance to fly than the F4F needs to turn.

I'm saying that the Zero has committed to the attack and is diving down on the F4F, and the F4F turns into the Zero for a head on attack.

 

Probably the best piston engine all around fighter/bomber of the war, (and into Korea). The reason they added so many Corsair squadrons to the fleet carriers later in the war was it's rate of climb that helped to intercept Kamikazes. It was the equal or superior to virtually all fighters (not just carrier based) including the vaunted German types.
Here's one comparative test

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/ptr-1107.pdf

It should be noted that the F4U-1 was the earlier model, since the document references January and February, 1944, the F4U-1D (much improved) didn't appear until April of 1944. The late war F4U-4 was in service by the time of Okinawa and it was a beast.
One thing that does need to be considered is that for an inexperienced pilot the F4F was probably a better plane, an experienced pilot that could push the envelope could get full benefit out of the F4U.

 

Hit the Quote cap.

If the Zero is twisting, then it is not attack, the F4F does not have to do diddly until the Zero commits to the attack.

The F4F only has to turn enough to keep the Zero in sight, or if the Zero is diving, turn to bring his guns to bear.

Climbing and turning depends on the respective aircraft. A Zero could climb and turn against a F4F, but against an F6F, now, that was a death wish.

 

If the speed was above 250 knots the Wildcat could turn inside the Zero, even in level flight, couldn't it?

 

if the Zero is diving to engage and the Wildcat is climbing, the Zero has all the advantages--speed, agility, option to disengage, etc..this is beyond question...this is common problem on WW2F--members not thinking realistically......
1.who, initially, said the Zero is diving to attack?
2.as stated, realistically, the Zero while diving to attack the Wildcat, is maneuvering for a good shooting position, as fighter pilots will do....

so you are saying they are in MG range..very close...,if not close, the F4F can't fire........ ...so you are saying they just happen to be within gun range when they notice each other?? they both are going right at each other???!! that is not realistic air combat......if not close, the F4F is dead meat<>no speed! Zero can up down all around, anywhere he wants....he has the speed and higher rate of climb...Zero can toy with him.....once the F4F slows down, guess what??
the F4F is climbing, no?? the Zero is going to turn with the F4F...if the Zero turns, and the F4F follows, it loses even more power...!..it can't keep up...easy for Zero to maneuver behind the F4F.....I take it these are experienced pilots?? [what color shoes are they wearing]
what are the initial positions and distance apart? is the F4F at 1, 3, 6 o'clock, etc?? what is the difference in altitude...??
if we are going to discuss, realistically, we need all this information...if not, we are yaking like idiots
the other factor is the human pilots...as I've stated many times, the enemy is not just going to stand there like on a game map, ..the pilots know their aircraft and how to handle them

 

I think it might have been less than that. IIRC, the controls started to stiffen around 180 knots.

 

the Zero will be weaving to get in the best position to attack...but also while attacking, both aircraft will be weaving, twisting, turning, etc.--if it is not a head on attack.........the F4F has to keep turning, moving, etc so as not to get in a bad position...it is a continuously flowing battle !!