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Napalm vs HE Best vs Infantry?

Discussion in 'Other Weapons' started by bronk7, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    You could at least try to provide a well thought and constructed thesis instead of being an intellectual vampire who depends on input from others and rarely, if ever, provides their own worthwhile insight.

    Feel free to PM a shot of that DD-214
     
  2. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    No one doubts the effectiveness of flame weapons, however as Lwd pointed out, they are most effective when paired with explosive devices.

    "Note that the latter source indicates that about 1/3 of the bomb weight dropped on Dresden was incinidary and 2/3 HE. The main implication I would take from this is that they considered a mix to be more effective than just one or the other."

    In addition to aviation delivered incendiary (napalm) weapons, in the Pacific the number of manpack flame weapons (flame tanks as well) were dramatically increased over time to deal with enemy fortifications.

    "The D-series Marine division had 24 flamethrowers, all organic to the divisional engineer battalion. By 1944, the F-series division carried 243 flamethrowers into combat, spread throughout the division. Each Marine regiment was assigned 81 flamethrowers."- World War II Gyrene

    Even so, it did not negate or eliminate the need for other types of weapons systems to deal with fortified enemy. Bazooka's also increased, as did the number of satchel charges rated by a unit. The tactic called "blowtorch and corkscrew" became commonplace. The bunker/fortification was suppressed with rifle, and BAR fire allowing the assault team to move forward. When they got close enough the flamethrower team would light up the aperture and the area around the target. A demo team would move forward and use a satchel charge to destroy the fortification or collapse and seal the cave. If it were necessary to clear but not destroy the emplacement same technique but, a few frags through the aperture to puree those occupants not already deep fried, then enter and clear with small arms and/or bayonets. Placing one or more rounds in, or skewering each former occupant to insure they weren't just stunned or playing possum.

    Napalm only burns what it gets on so if you can't get the fuel into a fortification, or onto something that can burn/explode secondarily, or if they're not close enough to, and the flame was not large enough to consume all the available oxygen, then the enemy has a good chance of surviving the attack. That's why post war the development of flame weapons went towards thermobaric or fuel air weapons. They consume more atmospheric oxygen, have an increased and longer duration blast effect, and the fuel (powdered explosive dust, metals or fuel droplets) disperses and mixes with the surrounding atmosphere, greatly increasing it's ability io infiltrate protected targets.
     
  3. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    There was a great (Tony Robinson!) doco called...Bomb street?? Something like that ...it had two WW2 era buildings set up, even with a bottle of milk outside the front doors...And then proceeded to see the effectiveness of different bombs on the two buildings...Some were designed to push the walls...others to take the roof off so that that incendiaries (that came next) could get inside the buildings...different charges and explosions for differing reasons...
     
  4. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Since this thread has proven that the devil is in the details, the mixture of HE to incendiary would vary according to the target. In the most devastating fire raid, the attack on Tokyo the night of March 9-10, 1945, the B-29s did not drop any HE, but used strictly all incendiaries - 1,539 tons of M-69s and 147 tons of M-47s.

    That is not to say that HE was not used in any of the fire raids on Tokyo. HE was dropped with incendiaries on 4 of the 6 fire raids flown against Tokyo. However, they were in far smaller proportions compared to Dresden.
    Tokyo Fire Raid Ratios
    Mission 38 - 9.2% HE
    Mission 40 - 0% HE
    Mission 67 - 3.8% HE
    Mission 69 - 1.9% HE
    Mission 181 - 0% HE
    Mission 186 - .19% HE

    U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey Report 90: Incendiary Attacks on Japan
    https://archive.org/details/U.s.StrategicBombingSurveyReport90IncendiaryAttacksOnJapan

    For the most part, the HE dropped during the Japanese fire raids served to disrupt and scatter the firefighters, in an effort to prevent them from effectively combating the many fires. Whereas, in Germany, the city building were of sturdier construction(stone walls as opposed to wood), thus they required a bit of blasting to get to the more combustible building interior.
     
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  5. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Which goes back to prove the original point;

    The situation, nature of the target, weather, etc., etc., determines the best weapons mix to achieve the desired result. There is no "best" it is situation dependant. You can't just look on a chart and say, "hmmm bunker on hill=weapon A x 2". Too many variables. The example you gave is a perfect illustration. A city made of light construction, a high percentage of combustibles, vs a city with significant construction of brick, stone, concrete, add HE to get to the flammable stuff. Need to suppress the fire fighters, throw in a little HE.

    You even provided the incendiary/HE mix for the Tokyo raids. Bronk7, note that they even varied from mission to mission. Wanna bet they used BDA's to tweak the mix for maximum effect?
     
  6. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    please forgive me..I'm am but a mere bootcamper on forumology...I'm learning, but slowly, ...admin has professionally given me great tips, which I've tried to follow... I'm slow in the brain, as I've stated before...Jug, and some others, I stand in the shadow of your great knowledge, syntax, , mercy, etc.... .however I do see many threads just like mine, and no problems......?? is this a conspiracy against bronk?.....
     
  7. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    Slow down and pick your battles; meaning: research before you post and bring something besides generalized questions. Put forth a little effort.
     
  8. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Jugs is trying to help Bronk. Pick a topic. Focus on one small portion of the topic. Give your understanding of the topic. Ask your question but try and make it somewhat specific, not all encompassing, because you will not and cannot get an appropriate answer if you're too broad. Take the information recieved from replies. Rate the information as to source, opinion, referenced, etc. Absorb said information. Either explore said information further to flesh it out, or add it to your knowledge base. Adjust your initial understanding of the original question or defend your original understanding using new information you have researched yourself, or have digested from replies from other forum members. Once you have nailed down your initial query expand outward with new, targeted, related questions. Before you know it you will have expanded your topic to the point you have an understanding of the wider subject, and an answer you would never have arrived at had you not worked your way outward, to it.

    Long winded, but hope it explains how I approach a question. Remember the answer is in the details.

    Pay attention to detail recruit. Don't make Jugs take you to the pit, or put you on the 02-0300 fire watch. :eek:
     
  9. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Hope you realize that the above was a joke, based upon shared experiences. After I posted I thought you might take it wrong, hope not.
     

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