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Need Help Deciphering Final Pay Voucher

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Dylan Haney, Apr 13, 2019 at 2:27 PM.

  1. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    No, Fort Dix was not used for training anything. Fort Dix is where units staged for POM (Preparation for Overseas Movement) when sailing from the New York Port of Embarkation. It is also where he arrived on 11 November 1946 when he returned from overseas service. QED he returned via the New York POE, so from Europe.

    Yes, it is possible he was at Fort Ord during the war, possibly training for the invasion of Japan, but given he had zero overseas service when he was discharged on 2 November 1945, he did not leave CONUS from the unknown date he was inducted into the AUS until he was discharged on 2 November 1945 for re-enlisting in the RA.

    It is more likely he was inducted (drafted) into the AUS at Huntington. When he enlisted in the RA they may have used his home of record as his enlistment place...that was fairly common.

    He had continuous RA service from 3 November 1945 to 28 November 1946. It would only require the loss of 26 days service due to whatever caused him to lose rank for him to be credited with zero years of service rather than one year and 25 days...and yes, the War Department could be that anal.

    AGF is Army Ground Forces, it is difficult to know for sure what AGF-F was, but given this was a final payment voucher, it likely was Army Ground Forces-Finance. W 24 CO are likely routing codes.
     
  2. Dylan Haney

    Dylan Haney New Member

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    When he reenlisted on November 3, 1945, his rank was PFC. Was he promoted to that rank just for reenlisting I wonder? I'm fairly certain that he did serve in Europe during the war, but I'll have to do some more digging around I suppose. From what I had heard in the family, he was already enlisted by late 1944. I really do appreciate you taking your time to deal with me, by the way. But I really do believe that he served and saw combat in Germany. I just need to find a way to prove it!

    I remember reading something before about the mustering out pay, about how certain things entitled you to get 100, 200, or 300 dollars. Do you recall what I may have read? Why did he only get 100 dollars mustering out pay when he had foreign service and nearly a full year of service at that point, and he got 200 dollars mustering out pay when you said that he had not even been out of the United States for his first enlistment?

    Oh, and also I noticed that on his the final pay from Fort Ord, he had two months of life insurance deducted from his pay. Class N was life insurance I believe. Could this point to him have being overseas before this reenlistment?

    And another edit. It isn't possible to tell if he were overseas prior to reenlistment from these pay sheets due to the fact that he simply could've been paid between returning to the United States, and this reenlistment. It would have been listed on that sheet instead of this one. Then again, I think I've proven that I'm quite ignorant when it comes to the subject.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019 at 10:21 PM
  3. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    When he was discharged on 2 November 1945, he received a $200 payment. eligibility for that payment was," for persons who, having performed active service for sixty days or more, have served no part thereof outside the continental limits of the United States or in Alaska." (United States Code: World War II Veterans' Mustering-Out Payments, 38 U.S.C. §§ 691-691g (1946)) He then returned to service in the RA, served overseas (probably Europe) for some period between November 1945 and November 1946. He was awarded an additional $100 on mustering out (note the $200 he was already paid is referenced under stoppages), giving him a total of $300, eligibility for which was, "for persons who, having performed active service for sixty days or more, have served outside the continental limits of the United States or in Alaska."

    The documents show he was a Pvt when he mustered out on 2 November 1945 and that he was a Pvt when discharged on 28 November 1946. Sometime between those dates he was promoted to PFC and then reduced to Pvt on 4 October 1946. There is nothing I see that indicates he was promoted to PFC upon re-enlisting in the RA on 3 November 1945.

    Yes, class D, E, and F deductions were for family allowances. Class N was for life insurance...IIRC, $6.50 was the standard $10,000 maximum policy. There was no requirement for overseas service for the life insurance policy (and there was also a $5000 policy). So I'm afraid that gives no indication of overseas service.

    Simply put, if he served overseas before his 2 November 1945 discharge, it would have appeared as foreign service pay credits and there would have been a date for "arrived in U.S." if he served overseas.
     
  4. Dylan Haney

    Dylan Haney New Member

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    He enlisted as a PFC a day after being discharged on November 3rd, 1945. It's listed on the electronic enlistment records.

    NARA - AAD - Display Full Records - Electronic Army Serial Number Merged File, ca. 1938 - 1946 (Enlistment Records)

    So I just assumed he was promoted to that rank then because his rank is listed as PVT just a day before.

    I had also assumed that since he had gotten 1 month of life insurance each time he had been overseas after the war, then he would have gotten the two months of life insurance before for the same reason. Thanks for all the help!
     
  5. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yes, good I had forgotten about that record. However, we know he had already served over 60 days as a Pvt...and there was no time requirement or automatic promotion from Pvt to PFC in World War II. The Pvt was also known as a "Basic Private" and each unit TO&E provided for X number of them, and promotion was at the discretion of the Company Commander and Company First Sergeant. I suspect that part of the deal for his RA enlistment was promotion to PFC...and service overseas, probably with the Army of Occupation, Germany.
     
  6. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    "I got a photograph in his uniform from him, but no helpful information. The local County Clerk has his brothers' records, but not his for some reason."
    ..." And while it may not be useful evidence, I have heard stories of his combat in Germany through the few people that he talked about it with."

    1.) Are you sure there is no helpful info in picture? 2.) Are you sure he lived in the same County when he was was discharged? Could he have filed his separation records elsewhere? Perhaps he lived elsewhere briefly? 3.) You had mentioned about him talking with someone about his service. Are those people or family/friends of them living to inquire about this? Any old "Army buddies" you recall?
     
  7. Dylan Haney

    Dylan Haney New Member

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    The picture is just him in his uniform, no patches or pins of any kind though. His cap had the light blue piping, so he was infantry. I've asked the person he talked about it with, and he mentioned my Papaw talking about being on the troop ship over, a few French men, standing guard with a large German man that never spoke, how a buddy of his stepped on a mine and died, and even once how he shot a man down to some extreme details... but I'm not so sure since it seems he wasn't in combat. That's why I had assumed that he did see combat. The locations he mentioned were Dusseldorf and Stuttgart I believe... maybe a few others I can't recall. But weren't Dusseldorf and Stuttgart in French occupation areas? I do know as well that he had a son overseas with a German woman, but I've not been able to connect with them. I have a DNA match with a young german woman that looks a lot like my great great grandma, my Papaw's mom! She mentioned that her great grandmother never spoke of the father of her grandfather, and she lives in Dusseldorf. However, she cut contact with me.

    I'm fairly certain he lived in this same county, and I checked his birth county as well, but no match. It's certainly proving to be a difficult case.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 4:03 AM
  8. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Stuttgart was headquarters for the Headquarters and Headquarters Troop, 3d Constabulary Brigade and the Headquarters and Headquarters Troop, 10th Constabulary Regiment. Otherwise, Düsseldorf was in the British zone, but that doesn't really say much and I cannot think of any wartime units path that would have taken it from one to the other city.

    The U.S. Constabulary were an occupation police force, so the chance he could have had a violent encounter with a man is high. On guard details they were also frequently paired with German police, so that also fits.

    Again, all signs point to him being part of the postwar American occupation forces and that his re-enlistment in the RA was specifically with that purpose.
     
  9. Dylan Haney

    Dylan Haney New Member

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    Yeah, thank you, Rich! I still definitely want to find out as much as I can about his service, and you have been incredibly helpful!

    I guess I'm still going to dedicate myself to figuring out which brigade, regiment, and squadron he was assigned to. Hopefully I'll be able to find another picture of him eventually.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 4:19 AM

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