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Discussion in 'Sport & Athletics' started by Poppy, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    "Be glad for what you have. Not all blacks are so lucky to be so wealthy" - Not everyone (anybody) are so lucky...any colour. My argument extends to anyone wanting to use their high payed employment to make a non related protest.
    Any exposure isn't good exposure...plenty of failed products to prove that...if you are trying to bring about change, then you have to understand what your dealing with and who you are dealing with.
    Australian businessmen don't go to Japan wearing a slouch hat...they bow instead.
    Surely you can see the pretend spear throw in the second video..?
     
  2. wooley12

    wooley12 Member

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    Without any back story or your cultural bias ( I'm not Australian so I only have my own :) ) I honestly didn't see the spear chuck even at full screen in slo-mo. FWIW, To me, It really resembled the same right hand gesture I've seen done many times by Italians arguing a question about sports or a tomato sauce recipe in New York. The same gesture. Funny. And what would the Australian gent be protesting in Japan?
     
  3. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    You should know mate...its no secret.
    I could make a detailed list of atrocities...lets just say google Australians and Changi.
     
  4. wooley12

    wooley12 Member

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    I guess anyone could make a list of ethnic atrocities if you think about it. I'm Polish and Irish. I'm just not familiar with yours. A police force that has a problem shooting too many black men is one of ours and we are in the middle of it. A protest is by definition supposed to inconvenience people so I guess it's working. Just this week the Attorney General, our top law man in the land, was speaking to an assembly of sheriffs and told them they should proud of the Anglo American heritage of the US Sheriffs. A lot of them are black. Ooops! He let his racism slip out.
     
  5. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Good points...except these are filthy rich people to some extent complaining about the very system that made them rich...I wouldn't mention "Anglo", that's asking for trouble...and not entirely correct...many are Irish, thats Celt not Anglo...Irish not British. For what its worth I have a lot of respect for US police - of ANY ethnicity...every time I see them in the many daily stories we get here in Australia, they are professional and capable...and mostly caring people. I could be wrong, that's just the impression I get. And I think the "black" problem is almost entirely a poverty problem, or born from a poverty culture...any large group of poor people are going to be tough to deal with, and have more problems than most...I think perception plays a part here too...too many bad stories involving people of colour, correct me if im wrong but aren't there more middle class black people than poor? Yet the guzzillion police/investigation tv shows and movies portray the black guy as bad...
    As an interesting aside, it was a running joke in Defence years ago that there were more police in NY than soldiers in the Australian Army!
     
  6. wooley12

    wooley12 Member

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    Filthy rich people have the same freedoms as poor people. And cops killing people isn't what made them rich. That's what the players are trying to draw attention to. I'd guess we have a large portion of middle class blacks, they just can't/won't/don't live in a lot of white areas as a rule. Cops are Ok. Most are good. Some are bad. A few are evil. A tough job for low pay with not enough training for the job they have to do today. The main reason for all the shootings IMO. Bad procedure.
     
  7. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    I think you may be onto something there mate...
     
  8. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Not a counter argument at all. The fact is that as pointed out that was not the place for them to protest. Someone can protest anything they like on their own time and in their own venue. Doing it while on the clock in a private venue is questionable at best. There's nothing forcing the rest of us to address the issue they raise either.
    Were they? They were kind of caught in a bind. If they took action then they upset many players and some fans of course not taking action also upset some. They seam to have viewed making no comment as the safest course that doesn't mean that they thought the actions were "ok" by any means.
    Again it's possible that issue X needs to be addressed but just because some one complains about it doesn't mean that the rest of us have to address it or if we do that we have to address it in the way they desire.

    And doing so is frankly a form of theft. People pay a lot of money to get an ad in the broadcast of a NFL game. Forcing your "ad" into the video stream with no thought of payment or permission is theft by conversion.
     
  9. wooley12

    wooley12 Member

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    I think that is suggested in chapter 2 of the book that I referenced. Don't protest where white people can see you. And FWIW, the owners stood by their players in the protest and against the dictatorial statements of commander bone spurs.
     
  10. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

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    I think overall most cops here in the U.S are great, and I think as time goes on as fewer and fewer Americans take that job, it will mostly be those who want to make a change and help others who will be police officers. There are always going to be a minority of people who are scumbags, and racists, and murderers, and rapists, it will always be that way, so to ask for a perfect police force is ridiculous, and even ignorant.
     
  11. wooley12

    wooley12 Member

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    No one is asking for perfect. Where do you get that idea?
     
  12. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

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    Almost everyone I see on TV after a police shooting or abuse of any kind calls for a purge of officers who display actions contrary to their job title, "To protect and serve". They want a police force where there is no profiling or racism, I want that, we all want that, but it's impossible to attain such perfection, there will always be a few cops here and there who commit crimes and abuse their power.
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    So you are using a satirical book as a reference?
    "Commander bone spurs"???? I admit I didn't follow it closely but I didn't see anything about the owners standing by the ability of the players to break the league rules. They didn't exercise the penalties they could have but that was their decision and one that may come back to haunt them.
     
  14. wooley12

    wooley12 Member

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    You don't know donald like I do. Same age. Grew up in the same state. Ran around the same city. I have read 3 newspapers every day my entire adult life. I've been hearing about him and his antics forever. Commander Bonespurs was coined by Tammy Duckworth. A war hero. Commander Bonespurs believes no pow is a hero. Pow's are losers.

    You should believe me when I tell you that this whole issue, raised to world attention by Commander Bonespurs, is his classic trump move. Lie, (he calls his lies "Truthful Hyperbole". Use the lie to divide And it works, eh. He is the president and you are not.
     
  15. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Since that is the case, there should be a proper vetting procedure in place to background check prejudice. Difficult I know, but not impossible.
     
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  16. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member Patron  

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    Perhaps you should increase your newspaper consumption to 4 papers per day as Duckworth called him Cadet Bonespurs not Commander.A trivial difference? Perhaps, but every time we allow a small error to creep into a debate we leave open a ever wider opening for more errors that in time will render any argument moot. The reference is in relation to Trump having been enrolled into a private military school as a child.

    Bringing this back on point the President's comments were ill advised and clearly delivered to wind up a certain segment of our society. They served no real purpose and were a waste of what little political capitol he had/has. Allow me to say again, I have no problem with the message, I may not entirely agree with it but it is a valid opinion. My problem is the venue it was given in.

    Its not as if Kapernick had no options to express his views. He was famous, he was rich, he was constantly being interviewed sports networks. He could pen a Op-Ed, take out a ad in a paper, call for a public gathering to discuss it. Trust me a starting QB on a NFL team will be heard and reported on. Heck every little thing they do makes it to the 24/7 sports networks on radio and tv, from there to the news channels. The thing is he not only wanted to 'spark' a debate, he wanted to be at the center of the debate like some mythic hero riding in on a white horse, sword raised on high.

    It is illustrative in his post protest period out of football. He says he wants to play but have let it be known he won't accept anything but a top tier position. This flies in the face of his professional record. He has a few great seasons, some average seasons and a couple of bad ones. He has been injury prone and his style of play is known for shorter careers. He won't take a back up position and prove himself, no he is owed treatment as Superbowl QB.

    Foles won one this year, but is more likely to be a 'one and done' QB and probably won't play next year for Philly and won't get to the big show with any other team.
     
  17. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Why would I want to? I already detest the man. The more I learn the greater that feeling
    So that explains your reference other than being an obsuce insult I don't see it's relevance.
    There are many reasons to detest Trump. I don't see how this one or indeed any of the others are relevant to the topic at hand.
    This is simply not relevant to the topic at hand. Unless of course you are suggesting that the player did it in collusion with Trump?
     
  18. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Foles will go down as a Philly Icon. However you are right. I would love to keep him around for another year backing up Wentz and holding his place until he gets healthy. The Reports out of Sports Illustrated that are throwing out two #1 picks is absolutely ludicrous.
     
  19. wooley12

    wooley12 Member

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    Sorry guys. Thought you would be interested in the back story to at least ponder it's weight but as we see, from the first reference, any greyness and the words and some toss the entire message out from the get go. 2019 season prediction. Trump will continue to gt more Sports press than any president in history of our great land.

    . Go Hawks!!!

    Carry on
     
  20. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

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    The thing people seem to not understand, is that talent and pure skill only play about half the battle to become a great, even legendary QB. A great coach, a great supporting team, and a good system is what ultimately makes or breaks a QB. Having a good team on both sides of the ball takes immense pressure off a QB, just ask Foles. A good coach is essential to the team working in unison and forming the team around the skill and leadership ability of the QB, starter, or backup.......Foles. A good system is probably the most important part of all, if a QB goes into a system he is unfamiliar with or not fit for, they are going to struggle no matter what, but when you have a system that fits their strengths and weaknesses, you have a winner.......Foles. So when Foles gets picked up by somebody, they better hopt they have an okay team, a good coach, and a system that fits him, or it's going to be the 2015 Rams experience again for him.........
     
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