North Korea detonates Nuke

Where, when

 

Nothing in this rather rambling post exposes the nefarious plot of the evil US to sieze Iraqi oil. How was this siezure to take place under the eyes of the world as the US ecourages Iraq to install a democratic government, one that includes the opposition that is now fighting to divide the country?
The independent Iraqi government elected by the Iraqi people can decide what to do with Iraqi oil and you can be sure of one thing; their decision won't be to give it to the US free of charge and you can be sure that the US government knew this fact as well. Actually the US imports very little Iraqi oil and what oil is imported is bought on the open market at open market prices.
You claim that the US attempted a coup in Venezuela so surely you must possess some evidence of this, right? I would certainly like to hear it and I'm sure others would as well.

 

exactly tiso...its not that we didnt invade n korea because they dont have any oil for us to steal..its because this tiny lunatic run terrorist nation has been the pet pit bull and proxy of both china and russia at different times.were it not for its powerful benifactors we would have rubbed out the n,k,s long ago..albiet at a high cost..the well trained and equiped nk military is no joke not to mention a thousand artillery tubes pointed at seuol

 

From:

 

No need to address all that point by point since it is now clear that it never rises above the level of conspiracy theory.
One point can be addressed though. Your assumption that because the US has military forces in Iraq, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia that it means that the US controls the oil reserves in those countries is rather ludicrous.

We have military forces in Britain, Greece, Japan (and on and on) does that mean that the US controls the resources of those countries. Having the power to perform an act does not equate to the intent. The US undoubtably has the power to destroy entire countries with the nukes from a single submarine and has had that power for decades without exercising it.

 

So that's where our North Sea oil is going!

 

ah...strateegeree...as the prez would say...ok so after we invade iran and venezuala ...then we get to say..har ,har its all ours and reap the huge profits ...or does all of it go into dick cheneys swiss bnk acct?

 

Just seen on the news that the UN has unanimously voted for sanctions - economic and military - for North Korea. This could get interesting. Aside from anything else, when was the last time the UN was ever unanimous?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 051704.stm

 

of course the sanctions will do nothing to change the behaviour of the n.k.s they will proceed with their nuke program..only the chinese can really do much about it and they wont do didley...

 

Actually, the article specifically states that China backs the resolution - albeit with some reservations. I assume they will have to follow through and actually enforce the embargo now.

 

i sure hope your assumtion proves to be right ,roel...one would hope the chinese see the benefit of a stable and prosperous pacific rim..

 

Excellent post TISO!

If you read books like Makers of Modern Strategy, from Machiavelli to Nuclear Age amongst the contributors Condoleezza Rice, you can find that the leitmotiv for conflict is the strategic control of resources.

Americans have the tendency to underestimate this and for some reason believe the standard story. Interesting to see that comments still contain the same propaganda like answers.

North Korea is not like Iraq. Iraq's army was de facto not capable to engage itself in any conflict. The kurds for example were already governing their provinces. Iraqi equipment was already worn out in the second gulf war so it could not make a serious stand against the american army.
North Korea on the other side has a strong army and the capability to strike back. Above all they can count on a large part of the population and they learned the lessons of the iraq-us and the lebanon-israeli war.
Basicly the military option is non existent, every reasonable thinker can understand that the outcome will not be victory but region wide chaos and war. Just as the us victory of Iraq has resulted in chaos and anarchy.
Only in the case of North-Korea it will be a bit more...

Wish to hear your opinion.

Kind regards,

 

north korea is a tuff nut , its true ..but the only reason it wasnt crushed long ago is because we could count on war with red china as well.....we have had strategic control of iraqs oil for some time now yet we continue to pay retai...we also have the force on hand to take kuwait and saudi oil ..or is it that we must also control iran and venezuelas oil too before we can initiate the giant free oil grab?...or does your conspirecy theory hold that we will never actually take any oil but merely control it somehow but never actually benefit in any way....

 

As far as I knows , north corea is regarded by russia as primarily a chinese
problem , and are pretty much following their lead on this one ,
they get along much better with the south .
for China it's more the problem of the idiot kid brother ,
you can't let him sink, he is familly , but you wish he would go into a coma
and stay there
except for making them look good in comparison , the north coreen
regime main interest is to keep the U.S. troops off the Yalu border ,
back in the late 40th Mao let it knows to Truman than the U.S could
kick the north coreens ,no major problem , but not to come to close as it
would be seen as a treat to them .

Mac Arthur ( one of my personal pet hatred ) decided to proceed and give
the finger to the PRC . The frozen retreat of the United Nations came very
close to turning into a total defeat ,
the chineses were not joking
an nothing really change

.

 

jeaguer...u hate general mac aurther..may i ask why?

 

After stuffing up the defence of the phillipines and retreating in a no hope
hole at the mouth of manilla bay
he then abandonned his men in an hopeless position with rhetorical
flourishes
since roosevelt didn't want such a political animal anywhere close ,he was
made the gift of the U.S. to Australia , during the very tough new guinea
campaign ,he demonstrated his military incompetence and his talent for
self promotion an intrigues and his ignorance of strategy by ignoring the
japannese landing and advance down the kokoda trail as a diversion .

he surrounded himself with yes men and syncopants telling him of
his genius ,while giving orders who had no connection to reality ,
he supported general Blainey ,of the australian army , for being his lap
dog , in spite of blainey being unfit for any military task above digging
latrines!
At all time macarthur did bellitle the fighting prowess of the aussies diggers
when in truth they were the greatest fighters in the theater in the opinion
of the japanese who feared them greatly .
the battle of milnes bay saw the same set up of incompetence from
headquarters redeemed by the local commanders with the heroism of the
men , the followup campaign was botched causing most of the heroes of
those battles dying charging in swamp at buna to conform to a scheduled
announcment of victory by"big mac"
there was no victory only a field full of dead meat , still the victory was
dully proclaimed .
Mac arthur promoted a strategy for perssonnal agrandisment, the
"southern thrust " whose objective was to make him look good ,as
demonstrated with the circus in the philipines landing photo oportunity
redone three times until satisfactory !
his repeated willful disobedience of orders in corea and the strong
suspicion than he wanted a chinese war led to his recall stateside
were he fished for the republican nomination which went thankfully to
eisenhower certainly a much better man and soldier

 

I agree with Jeaguer... MacArthur may have been a passable tactical general, but he was a bit of an over-ambitious megalomanic. In the Korean War, although MacArthurs troops pushed the North Koreans to the 38th Parallell, he could have stopped then and there with no further damage or American casualties... Instead MacArthurs's goal became the eradication communism from Asia entirely (China included), pushing right through into Chinese territory past the River Yalu; US bombs began falling in Manchuria... Amibtion was MacArthurs downfall here, naturally the Chinese sent troops forcing the Americans right back to the 38th Parallell which cost many American, Chinese and civillian lives... Not content with stalemate, he pressed Truman for full scale war with China, using nuclear weapons if necessary. Ignoring Trumans sensible advice upon this proposal he openly threatened China with nuclear war... MacArthur really had more ambition and pride than was good for America's interests; not a good strategic thinker if you ask me...

Don't like him at all

 

I shall not address your opinions regarding Macarthur alleged disparaging of Australian soldiers. History will not judge him based on such petty issues( nor even take note of it as far as I can tell).
In regards to the Phillipines Macarthur was left with few options. Once the decision was made in Washington that the Phillipines could not be reinforced the die was cast. Nothing Macarthur could do would change that situation.
As far as abandoning his men in the Phillipines goes he was ordered to move his headquarters to Australia, it wasn't his decision. At the time the Australians were quite happy to have Macarthur and American forces in Australia since there was a very real chance of invasion and occupation by the Japanese.
BTW when you say that the Diggers were the greatest fighters in the theatre and most feared by the Japanese; the first part of that sentence can be construed as merely unsupported opinion but the second part refers to the opinion of the Japanese who fought in the theatre. Most of the Japanese who fought against the US in the Pacific did not survive the war. What is your source for such an idea? Comparatively, not many Japanese ever even fought against Australian troops, but if they left glowing accounts regarding the prowess of the Diggers I have not encountered them. Perhaps you can help us?

 

a. UN troops did not cross the Yalu.
b. Manchuraia was bombed a few times, rightfully becuase it was the source of supplies for the Chinese fighting in Korea.
c. The Chinese and NK troops initially pushed UN forces below Seoul and it was the UN troops who pushed the NK and Chinese out of Seoul and back to the 38th parallel which became the truce line.

 

I agree... My point is, that his ambition cost lives. Aggravating China was not a clever thing to do, it was done purely in the name of political and military ambition, and ultimatley the USA were left with less ground than they would have had, had China not been attacked... North Korea could have been all but extinguished then and there had MacArthur not drawn China to her defence by attacking her directly. The existence of North Korea was guaranteed by this foolish move

Of course, this really was just a tactical blunder, perfectly human mistake. MacArthur simply bit off more than he could chew... However when faced with (when all is said) a politically minor defeat (South Korea was secure after all = the original plan) to encourage nuclear warfare really comes across as nothing more than egotistical refusal to accept loss at the price of lives... much like Hitlers' fall in Berlin really, although, thankfully, MacArthur was denied his dream of a nuclear apocalypse

I could have gone into more extrinsic detail about the Yalu border and the shifting of the 38 parallel as you corrected me upon, but really i think the simple overview i have given is clear enough to communicate my point.