Overclaiming

sorry but that does not work as Marseille and others had their overall count and if by daily written down in their Flugbuch(s), time up and down and the mission whether transfer flight, Einsatz or ........ ? did not matter it was all written down early war till fall of 44, then it got to be speculation

 

Hello Erich,

are you refering to me?

Regards
Kruska

 

no I am backing you up. the press really had nothing to do with the kill system, what it did do however was support and emphasize certain "Aces" of the Wehrmacht and the SS armed forces as self-proclaimed experten/heroes

 

Hello Erich,

allright I got you - for a moment I was thinking

Regards
Kruska

 

The Gabreskis are family friends, I knew his brother Ted and my father met Frank several times while Frank was still alive. I read his book about his wartime experience and he talks about getting shot down and hearing some whizzing noises only to realize that the german soldiers on the ground were shooting at him. He was eventually captured, put into a POW camp and then liberated by the Russians.

 

Kruska,

I never said the press decided who got the cross, I said the cross was often given to give the press something to write about. And again you can't compare the Luftwaffe to the Heer in this discussion. Luftwaffe totals weren't inflated by the press as far as I know, but accounts from the Heer were often inflated by the press, Wittmann's actions in Bocage being a famous example as he himself never claimed the tanks the press gave him credit for or what was written in the military records.

Now going back abit what was it your fathers name was, and which unit did he serve in?

 

In the official award given to him for the Villers-Bocage attack Wittmann was credited with destroying 26 tanks and numerous other AVF's, but the maximum number of tanks he could have destroyed was only 11.
He might himself have never claimed that many (we actually don't know how many he claimed), but the fact is, the figure of 26 tanks is always added to his total score.

 

Actually Wittmann is believed to have destroyed 12 or 13 tanks that day. Furthermore we don know what he said, and he never claimed more than 9 IIRC.

 

Believed by whom?
Can you give a source that lists these '12 or 13'?

Try listening to the german speaking here:

YouTube - Villers-Bocage

Then one wonders why he allowed the inflated total to be added to his kill list.
What really matters is the fact that these huge claims rarely stand up to close scrutiny.

 

Hello Proeliator,

certainly I am not going to forward my fathers name here. As for the units he served in:

From October 1938
4. (Stuka)/186
6.(Jagd)/186
3./Erpr.Gr.210
3./SKG210
From June 41
III./JG 26
10.(Jabo)/JG 26
10.(Jabo)/JG 54
10 (SKG 10)
From September 43
13?/Flugzeugverbindungsgeschwader 2. (Munich)
From July 44
3/KG 51
I./(Erg.)/KG-51
I./KG 51

Regards
Kruska

 

Hello guys,

does anyone have a source to this for me:

In regards to the "sinking" of the Ark Royal, my friend told me yesterday that the Pilot had actually reported correctly of having missed the Ark Royal - but Goering insisted on the Ark Royal being sunk.
The pilot was promoted from Obergefreiter - Leutnant upon this.

Regards
Kruska