P-51 Mustang, best Allied fighter or not ?

ofcourse I cant say something around here without being questioned or critisized .

 

and ofcourse a brit is questioning me

 

Is it such a big deal to stop questioning poeple and actually believe them .I hate it when you try to explain something and poeple go thats wrong all wrong were do you get your info from start checking every part of it .It gets me pissed . I gues you people cant do that :[ :angry:

 

Calm down and don't take it personally.

I am suggesting you check your information because I believe it is incorrect, and I have shown in reasonable terms why I think so.

Yes I am British, so what? What does my nationality have to do with anything?

The whole point of a Forum like this is to exchange views and opinions, which is all I was doing. Rather than having a temper tantrum, try debating the points I have posted with me. Do you believe anything I have posted is incorrect? If so why? You wont offend me by disagreeing with me!

If no-one questioned or debated each others posts this would be a very dull forum.

 

well It wasnt the armor pl8 it was the side of the plane that they tried to penetrate with the 30 but I couldnt .Also if the mustang was slower than the mig 15 and it had trouble catching up to it why do the pilots of the p-51's during korea say that they were very easy to catch up to and shoot down ?????? .I could care less about the spitfire

 

Your friends at the sandbox quoted Korean war veterans wrong.

Not all of us in this forum are from UK, so please don't insult us.

 

I agree with Hubsu's explanation (Although I'm waiting to hear why he thinks being called British is an insult... :lol: ), by the time of the MiG-15's arrival in Korea most Allied piston engine planes were used mainly for ground support, not particularly air-to-air combat. Yes they did of course engage in air-to-air combat if they had to, and certainly some MiGs would have been shot down, but significantly Piston engined fighters produced no aces in the Korean War.

Simply put, if a MiG-15 was flying low and at a cruise, failed to notice a tailing F-51 which had about a 5-10,000 ft height advantage and was flying at full WEP, then yes the F-51 probably could catch the MiG. In level flight and at equal altitude, no chance.

If you still think or know otherwise, please provide a reference for at least one book or a reputable internet site so that I can see for myself. I would be genuinely interested to read this.

Spitfires and .303s...

OK let me consider this seriously.

You are telling me that the .303 could not penetrate the aluminium skin of a Messerschmitt Bf109E. OK, before I even think about accepting that as true, of the Luftwaffe's common aircraft during the Battle of Britain (Bf109E, Bf110C, He111H and P, Do17, Ju87B and Ju88A), all were almost entirely metal with the exception of the glazing.

If your information is correct, the .303 would be completely incapable of penetrating the skin of any of the Luftwaffe's combat aircraft during the Battle of Britain, plus a bullet that would be defeated by a thin layer of Aluminium would similarly be defeated by the glazing on the Luftwaffe's fighters and bombers, making the Luftwaffe aircraft utterly immune to the RAF's fighters.

Yet fighter command destroyed or damaged 273 Luftwaffe aircraft in August 1940 alone. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ba ... istics.htm

Can you provide any sensible explanation of how this happened when the bullets would apparently bounce off Luftwaffe aircraft?

Can you provide me with a reference to a book or reputable website to corroborate this?

Can you provide any additional information about the test? I'd be particularly interested to find out at what range the .303s were fired from.

 

If there’s one thing I learned after my banning, its that further aggravating an already clearly upset party then adding your own custom little jab (in this case, calling Sherman a 'troll') doesn't help the situation. On the contrary, it just makes it worse.

Note: I'm not trying to do the Moderators job. I'm merely trying to help avert a situation before the mods have to get involved.

 

As far as I know, there are 5 credited kills for F-51s and F-82s in the Korea. None of the kills are from yet driven planes.

USMC F4U-4 killed the sole prop kill from a MiG-15 in Korea. The Corsair was in a ground attack mission when they were bounced by 4 MiG-15. A single lucky 20mm shot from a distance aimed to distract the attacking MiGs was seen exploding in the MiG and consequently led to the loss of that MiG.

 

Of course, my error, what I meant to say was "...Piston engined fighters produced no aces on just MiG-15 kills in the Korean War."

 

Noted and cleared.

Altough, for me it seems that the majority of this party hasn't been getting upset at all. The talkback here has been surprisingly civilized.

 

Alright, but you still haven't said why being accused of being British is supposed to be an insult! :lol:

 

That was a pure joke

 

I sort of guessed (Or was that hoped...!)

 

It's called a debate, Sherman. When you present your opinion, the other participants will ask you to support it, and this is not at all strange since they want to know what made you draw your conclusion. When you can't present arguments in favour of your opinion, people will not take it seriously. By your logic anyone could come in and say anything and have to be believed, because we can't ask him to support his opinion.

Consider it normal that we ask you to support your opinion with some arguments on these forums, and be warned that attacking the other party personally instead will not be tolerated.

 

Of course it could, but to be fair it could also bounce off if it hit at a shallow enough angle. This applied - and still applies - to all aircraft ammo - even the .50 cal (he says, diving for cover). The following is from a report on the effectiveness of the 30mm Aden gun:

"A February 1957 report admitted that with the existing Aden ammunition, 20% of all strikes on target would ricochet and another 55% to 60% would explode prematurely, on the target’s skin!"

The .303 was only just adequate in the BoB. During the battle, the planes of both sides had their protection levels increased and the RAF pilots found it increasingly difficult to shoot down the German planes. They were in desperate need of the Hispano, but it was just too late. Fortunately the .303 remained just adequate for just long enough.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

 

Actually, the US Navy's sole Korean War ace flew the F4U Corsair.

 

With just MiG-15 kills?

 

My apologies, Simon, I misread your statement.

 

hi all ,my first post.being a yank i was always taught the p51 was the best.in the latest flight sim it does not measure up at all.il2aces pacific ect.the stang is hard to fly ,easy to stall.the 3 fifties per wing are puny.the engineis very fragile.to be fair we mostly fight below 6000 feet in the hypper lobby.the late spits mrk 8 and after,the 109g and k,the la7 and yak 3,are much favored.these planes are fast hit hard and can turn well .50 cals are no match for 20mm and 30mm cannons,the game was designed by russians and some claim a anti american bias..if u have to escort at 30000 feet to berlin and back the stang can do it ..u sure dont want to bring it in the hyper lobby tho...regards ,woody p.s. the corsair hold up pretty well ,specially the one with 4 20mms,it will not turn with any of the fore mentioned planes tho...