Question regarding : Israeli Cromwell tank

Is this Israeli Cromwell tank equiped with a standard 75 mm gun ? It seems to me that the gun is both longer a of a different shape plus the Mantlet looks different ?

 

Hi,



The barrel seems longer and looks like there is two or three significant narrowings on the barrel which the original does not have.

Also the mantlet seems solid so that gun can not move up and down. Presumably this was done by the museum. It could well be a false gun?

FNG

 

Hi FNG

Nice picture - I think you are right, it seems to be a false gun fitted for display purposes

 

Does anybody have a picture of the 'French long 75mm' apparently fitted to many tanks by the Israelis?

 

Look at
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ ... AMX-13.htm.
Re the Cromwell, that looks like a German 75 L/48 muzzle brake to me. Maybe an old barrel? I agree the mantlet looks like it wouldn't work, but maybe they got the barrel from Pzkpfw IV (Syria?)

 

That muzzle brake seems more like the 17pdr to me.

 

17 pr has a double-baffle, PIV has (in some versions) single-baffle only. My bad, L/43 not L/48...

 

this discusion should be in the post WW II section or modern, is in it?

 

Cromwell gun

Looking at my AFV Weapons Profile no. 25 on the Cromwell and Comet, it is clear to me that whatever gun was fitted to Cromwell tanks had its barrel project through a cut out in the heavily bolted front plate of the turret. Co- axially fitted with the main gun was the sighting m.g.

Looking at the depictions and photos of the later Comet tank featured in the same profile, it seems to me that the barrel of your Cromwell is the same as the main armament as fitted to the Comet's. Unfortunately the mantlet of the the Comet is covered by a canvas shroud so it is impossible to discern its shape. However, the gun barrel and mantlet of the Cromwell depicted here in this Forum is exactly the same as that of the Charioteer, so although it is unlikely, could we assume that a Cromwell has been fitted with the 20 pdr. of the Charioteer ( yes, I do agree that the mantlet shown here would seem to be able ti give little elevation / depression to the gun, but it did work in the Charioteer !
Marlin.

 

A 20pdr with apparently fixed or limited elevation?

Interesting...

Now all we need is the text of the display plate in front of that thing!

 

Re: Cromwell gun

Little elevation? It's pointing upwards! Ok for helecopters though

I also feel that where the gun comes through the turret it's solid and there is no movement allowed.

FNG

 

20 pdr.

I wouldn't care to comment on the ability of that mantlet to depress/elevate, but I do know that it certainly is the same shape/size as the one in the picture submitted by our fellow Forum member. Perhaps the Israelis closed off or welded shut the mantlet of the tank on display, since it does look like a museum piece.

I was also intrigued by the text, but it certainly doesn't say " Vehicle of mild steel construction. Only to be used for trials and demonstrations" !
Marlin

 

http://www.davidpride.com/Israeli_Armor/IL_Armor191.htm
No muzzle brake (but an early bore evacuator?)
http://henk.fox3000.com/cromwell/cromchar.jpg
No muzzle brake - canvas bore cover though
http://s1.simpload.com/10314366a9e08e4d4.jpg
Can't see the muzzle.
In all cases the barrel does not exhibit the varying diameters shown on the first example. I have doubts that a 20pr would fit the 57/60" turret ring of a Cromwell.
Note also that Charioteer's mantlet is also cut away with weather cover

 

I, too, doubt that a 20 pdr. would fit the turret ring. I do have a pic. of a Charioteer fitted with mantlet, but it is a crap pic. and wopn't reproduce wll ( maybe it is so crap as to be unworthy of serious consideration ?
Marlin.

 

Post it if you can, I've not come across Charioteer with a mantlet (used to spend a lot of my time climbing over the one a Beverley Army Transport Museum - now sadly closed).

 

FNG