Serpents Wall.

This is a site I found awhile back. The author is a native of Ukraine and her site is very interesting. Hopefully I can get to this place and find some of those Mongol arrowheads.There is also links to her and her friends excursions to Chernobyl.

Enjoy. Kiev - Ukraine - History of Ukraine - Serpent's Wall

 

Did I forget to say that there are pics of a Sherman in the mud towards the end and lots of pics from the fortifications of WWII? Battlefield pics too?

How about the girl?, works on her own bikes, likes to dig in the dirt for things that go boom, go camping, cooks, goes bar hopping and frankly is pretty good looking.

^^ Hmmmm? What more could a guy ask for?

 

Go for it

I knew the site, fascinating, isnt' it? How about her defence of Vlasov?

 

I think that Vlasov was a selfish individual personally, hanging around hoping for some scrap tossed to him by the master race. Did he have good ideas? Perhaps but I question who's they were and I question how practical they were. She is an idealistic person, notice how she was suckered by the Orange revolution. How has that worked for the Ukrainian people?

I like Ukrainians but they seem to be confused people. Russian character with confused European mindset. They can never make up their minds it seems whereas Russians can come to a common consensus. Perhaps it is because they are made up of so many different peoples. And they don't seem to get along that well. I'm quite surprised they are not in a state of civil war and this says a lot about their nature and high character.

 

Very interesting site, I especialy aprreciate the care taken to not only make another "Look what I've dug out" website, but also to explain and describe the historical background.

Thanks for sharing.

 

Another classic site along similar lines:
Nevskij*Bridge-head > Photo 1

Wasn't the serpents wall woman involved in some sort of controversy a year or two back? Something about her Chernobyl trips not being all they were claimed to be? Can't remember.

Cheers, (and welcome Chuikov!)
Adam.

 

Interesting site........

Orange revolution eh? Something tells me that Yuchenko hasnt done too much for her

As for Vlasov, he did indeed play a role in the battle of Moscow and was interviewed by a French Journalist after, in which he told her how the mighty Soviet Union would kick the invaders out.

He only switched sides after being surrounded by the Germans and faced certain death. The reason he is considered a traitor is because he shot and killed his own people....... He will always be considered a traitor and rightfully so!

I find it interesting how she neglected to mention that Vlasov later switched sides again to fight against the Germans with his men in Czechoslovakia. I wonder why?

He got what he deserved.

 

What the controversy was about was she used both her own photos and photos from other sources. This brought all kinds of people out of the woodwork criticizing her. What the point of it was I am not sure. She states at the beginning of the essay that not all of the photos are hers.

Her and her friends actions are also considered not acceptable either in the region. They are considered grave robbers ("diggers") by many, not historians. I hope to go to Chernobyl myself in the next few years, I know several people who have and the Belorussians love to hunt along the edges for the huge boars which come out of the area. Or so I am told. I do not buy pork from the farmers markets there. I don't know where it came from.
Apparently you can go there if you want, strictly at your own risk and people have been living there since 1986 and apparently have little if any ill effects. You must stop at a decontamination station on the way out and it is advisable to have a geiger counter with you.

 

I heard of Vlasov army and have read much about it. It seems he/they recruited Russian soldiers out of camps by offering them food or death by slow starvation.

Come and fight in the Vlasov army or starve to death here. Some choice wasn't it? Fighting in Vlasovs army was just like being in a penal battalion. Many soldiers took the chance they were given and ended up with the partisans at the first opportunity they had to escape. Many of them were simply trying to survive. I read one mans story of how he was captured (Moscow?) with Vlasovs men and put in a camp around Smolensk. After having to live in an open camp that winter he joined Vlasovs army for a few months and escaped to fight with partisans around Vitebsk. He was captured again and sent to a camp in Poland for almost a year where he nearly died and in 1944 escaped to join the Czech partisans fighting the Germans. He ended up in another camp in Kharkov after the Red Army found out who he was. The NKVD finally let him go in 1947 as a free man but considered him a traitor as they did many of the Russian POWs. This was sad.

Vlasov himself was an opportunist, I believe he thought he would have some high status or something in the new world order under the victorious Reich. He was playing the cards of fate hoping to gain from the suffering of others, a true politician, unlike his abilites as a general.

I have been to the Ukraine recently. I'll tell you what, those people are being reamed bigtime. "Democracy" is a curse word there about now. I just read a report that said the average Ukrainian has to spend 50% of their income every month for food.

I've seen people begging in Moscow, it's no different than NYC really but Kiev was off the scale. A LOT of people were begging. That country is in a sad state and the people that run it are the scum of the earth.

I think the people are just about done with "democracy", it makes their lives miserable. I wouldn't be surprised if the people start burning things down.

 

Thank you for sharing this point of view. I have also heard Ukranians compare Democaracy to "weakness" and "corruption". It's kind of scary to hear that. Do you think that there are in fact two Ukriania's and that they might seperate?

 

From what I have read of the political situation in the Ukraine since the fall of the USSR thoughts of the people seem tot say that democracy = corruption. I have never heard weakness applied to it. NATO means enemy from the Dneiper east to the Caucasus, make no mistake about that. The Marines NATO sent to the Crimea awhile back were sent by Yuschenko and the Crimeans officials tossed them into an insane asylum to avoid trouble and to make a point.

It seems to me that democracy is all about choice, freedom to make a choice. All well and good in theory but there has to be standards/mechanisms in a democracy that allow for equality and choice.
There's plenty of choices in Ukraine, provided you have the right connections and that all important $$$$$$$. The people don't have money, the oligarchs do therefore they control everything and being the greedy bastards they are seem to care little for the people. The only people making money in the Ukraine are the Oligarchs and their connections. As soon as the money is made it is taken out of the country, not invested in it.

As for Ukraine splitting up I think there is a good chance of it in the future. East of the Dnpr it is mostly Russian and west it is a hodgepodge. If they have a rebellion or a civil war that is what will happen.

 

The initiation into Vlasov's army or to just fight for the Germans involved showing loyalty, in which Soviet troops would be ordered to shoot their own first in order to switch sides.

Sad indeed my friend, sad indeed..... The entire country is corrupt. Many Ukrainians now search for jobs in Russia as a result.

 

You should see how many are coming here to the Seattle area, there are a lot of them. Everyone thinks they are Russians. I hear many go to other parts of Europe.

You know what I read in the news that was absolutely pathetic? Yuschenko was making personal appearances at hospital nurseries in a campaigne to bring up the birthrate. Women who had a SECOND child would get 5000 hivernas. ABOUT $1250!!! How out of touch can you be? I can't see it being any other way. Those lice in the government have no clue, you can't raise a single child there now let alone a second one.

Any fool knows the birth rate is very low when times are hard and people have no faith in their future.

 

I am here in Baltimore, and we have a large Ukrainian population here. I find in interesting how Ukrainians ALL call themselves Russian, but at the same time show their dislike for Russia.... go figure.

As you can imagine, I am the one to remind them that they are NOT Russian but Ukrainian.

 

That's funny, I asked a woman here if she was Russian awhile back and I thought she was going to shoot me. She's Ukrainian and a Cossack of the western area. I have a friend who I chat with in the banya who is from Ashkabad and says he is Russian.

What I really don't understand is the conflict in Georgia, what in the hell is the history of that place? I know there has always been a lot of wars there, Russia has been the only country able to keep a lid on it for a long while.

 

Even over here we have a sizable lot of Ukrainian immigrants, and they are well received and well liked by the population at large. Everybody does special efforts to get them legalised as soon as possible. The Catholic churches (the majority here) go out of their way to provide ways for them to worship any way they like, providing non-specific worship to blur the difference between Cath. and Orthodox rituals. If they can get their own priests they're welcome to perform their own rituals as they please, God is only one I think. Funnily they stick to their different religious calendar so those churches celebrate the same feast twice!

In my former firm there were at least three Ukrainians, and it's immensely sad as one of them was a trained veterinarian who was working as a stonemason, but even so he was able to provide for his family back home.

Qualified people are slowly inching their way up, the local medical supervising body is recognizing their degrees and I see more and more Ukrainian names in our National Health Service.

Good luck to them as they do deserve it.

Of course there's a downside to this as there is some "white-flesh" traffic, but I can assure you police here doesn't like the idea at all and they have their particular notions of "heavy hand" when it regards sexual exploitation matters...

 

It really does amaze me (being here in the states) that people can just find where a battle site was and go there and dig stuff up. Incredible. I wish I could go the next town over and find stuff, lol.

 

Georgia eh? Well half of the population is Pro Russian and the other half is not. The pro Russian population consider their president a puppet for the US. It is messy indeed. The situation with South Ocetia and Abhzazia does not help at all.


THERE IS NOTHING BETTER THEN BANYA!!!

 

Yes there is. Tanya in the Banya. Couldn't resist.