Sturmgewehr 44

"The first true assault rifle was probably the Italian-made Cei-Rigotti, which was developed in the 1890s and finished around 1900, at the beginning of the 20th century; it never entered military service, however. The first service assault rifle was the Russian Federov Avtomat of 1916, chambered for the Japanese Arisaka 6.5 × 50 mm rifle cartridge, which was only used in small numbers due to supply problems."




" Originally created by Amerigo Cei, an officer in the Italian army, in 1890, the Cei-Rigotti rifle was extensively modified by Rigotti in 1900, and is often regarded as the first assault rifle. Over the next few years (1903 and 1911) there were improvements to its internal functions, such as its gas operation. This is also what made the Cei-Rigotti so modern, the fact that it was the first time a gas operated action was successfully used in a rifle. The rifle also featured 6.5x52mm munition in what was probably a 25 round detachable box magazine. The system, although not actually used by any army (possibly because of unreliability), was remade in Switzerland, Russia, Austria. These variations featured 8x56mm munition (Austria) and 7,62x54mm (Russia)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cei-Rigotti
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Assault_rifle
http://www.fas.org/news/reference/probert/F3.HTM
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm

As for the AK-47 ,according to Kalashnikov all he used from the German example is the 7.62 ammunition. However, the Soviets wanted a new design because they were impressed with the German weapon, so in that small respect you can say that they based the AK47 on it, but that would like saying that all future jets was based on the Me-262. They are all jets, but they aren't based on it.

 

What i was trying to say is that the effectiveness of the STG prompted the Russians etc to develop their own Assault Rifle.

The STG was really the first Assault Rifle to be produced and used widely - in an effective role - in combat that would then set a trend for post-WWII warfare.

Those other two 'Assault Rifles' really didnt demonstrate anything, nor did they see prolonged use in War or call for the creation of more Assault Rifles by other countries.

The same with the German Me...first real jet-powered fighter, and the allies did use its blueprints in developing their own (at least, took a look at what the Germans had developed and improved upon it). I am sure the technology would have made it to the skies at some point, but the german Me excelled that process as it was the first real Jet Fighter.

 

Is it true that the Germans got alot of their jet research information from the Brits? I know about an ignored scientist called Whittle who designed a jet aircraft for Gloster. Didn't the Germans use this info when they made the Messerchmitt Me-163 and Me-262? or was that the Heinkel He-178?

 

I have to disagree, the Avtomat was the first practical assault rifle to be adopted by the military and see front line service. It demonstrated that it was possible to build a full automatic rifle that could be easily handled by one man without turning into an LMG. Had it not been or the turmoil of the Russian civil war and the supply problems experienced by the Imperial Russian Army in WW1 it could have seen far more widespread service. It could easily be argued that weapons like the Avtomat were what set the stage for the Stg44 and the AK47.

 

actually the St 44 is too big but not that heavy, personally it pastes just about everything to shreds even more so in my opinion than the earlier AK-47's before newer modifications to increase firepower

 

re: Jets

I could be wrong, but I think a British Scientists developed it in the 1920's, a year or two before a German came out with his own. However, it was the Germans who first applied this 'science' to aircraft, long before the British did.

 

Well the Me-163 was rocket powered not jet. And the Italians had some research in it too. And the Italian CC 2 made what people thought was to be the world’s first jet powered flight in May 28, 1940. But then it was long after the war when records and documents showed that a He 178 made the first flight with a true jet engine the year before.

 

I agree .The Stg44 can claim it was the first MASS produced "Assualt Rifle" to be issued.

 

Generally accepted as the world's first assault rifle, the StG44's effect on post-war arms design was wide-ranging, as evidenced by Mikhail Kalashnikov's famous AK-47, and later in the U.S. M16 and its variants. The Soviet Union was quick to adopt the assault rifle concept. The AK-47 used a similar-sized round and followed the design concept, but the AK was mechanically very different.
Sturmgewehr 44 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll admit its mechanically different but the design and concepts are very alike.

 

Whittle produced the first workable jet engine. His design was patented internationally, and was in the public domain. The jets used in the Me 262 were axial rather than centrifugal flow, however, so certainly weren't a copy of Whittle's jet. They weren't entirely original, either: axial-flow gas turbines had been worked on in various countries, but were mainly held up by the lack of suitably heat-resistant alloys.

The first flight of a German jet was of the He 280 on 30 March 1941. The first British jet was the Gloster E28/39 (note the number 39 - it was designed to a specification produced in that year). This flew on 15 May 1941 - just six weeks later.

The first flight of a combat jet - the Me 262 -was on 18 July 1942 (earlier flights were with a prop engine in the nose), but lots of work was needed (especially to the engines) so serial production didn't start until 1944. The first experimental/test squadron was formed in April 1944, carrying out initial operational missions in August 1944. The first regular Luftwaffe Me 262 squadron was formed in January 1945 (JG7).

The Gloster Meteor was designed in 1940 (to spec F9/40) and although the first prototype was built in 1942 one didn't fly until March 1943. The first production Meteor F.1 flew in January 1944 and the first regular RAF squadron (No.616) was formed in July 1944 and went into action against V1 flying bombs at the end of that month. The Meteor therefore beat the Me 262 into regular operational service, and saw action sooner.

 

I know I am chiming in a little late here but the AK-47 is actually more closly coppied action wise and the M1 caribine. They use an almost identical firing system how ever the AK-47's version of the firing system in inverted from the way it was on the M1 caribine. But it relates much more closely then the STG44. I don't think there can be any doubt the the look and rate of fire of the STG44 had a part in the inspiration and creation of the AK-47. But system wise its closer to an M1 caribine.

Reed

 

The Italian Caproni "jet" wasn't a real jet. It used a piston engine and ducted fan for propulsion making it essentially a variant of a propeller driven aircraft.

 

"Well the Me-163 was rocket powered not jet. And the Italians had some research in it too. And the Italian CC 2 made what people thought was to be the world’s first jet powered flight in May 28, 1940. But then it was long after the war when records and documents showed that a He 178 made the first flight with a true jet engine the year before."

Thats why I said people THOUGHT it was. LOL

 

Here's an interesting side note... I came across Mauser 98's and a Sturmgewehr 44 in Baghdad in 2003. It was taken off of a bad guy who no longer needed it. No one knew what it was until I explained and told them what it was worth (historically and monetarily.) Rest assured it went back to germany for a museum display.

 

.

The first German Jet was the HE178 and flew on 27th August 1939 - looked like a mid-high wing version of a Gloster E39.

I'm glad some-one else has mentioned this, I suspect the AK design may have been influenced by M1 carbines supplied as lend lease samples. As far as I am aware and I am sure Tony Williams can put me right on this, that prior to the AK no Russian automatic weapon had a turn bolt system, further to this point the low power cartridge of the M1 could be seen as a starting point for 7.62/39 from the power point of view (I'm not suggesting it as a direct copy).

Finally first assault rifle:- The M1 is in effect the first intermediate cartridge size assault rifle. The first assault rifle was the French Chauchat C.S.R.G. which was a WW1 weapon development starting in 1910 - possibly the Automat Federov (russian 1906) in 6.5mm could also be considered.

Steve

 

God I hate Zombie threads . So Ill just repost what I had earlier in this useless thread.

"The first true assault rifle was probably the Italian-made Cei-Rigotti, which was developed in the 1890s and finished around 1900, at the beginning of the 20th century; it never entered military service, however. The first service assault rifle was the Russian Federov Avtomat of 1916, chambered for the Japanese Arisaka 6.5 × 50 mm rifle cartridge, which was only used in small numbers due to supply problems."




" Originally created by Amerigo Cei, an officer in the Italian army, in 1890, the Cei-Rigotti rifle was extensively modified by Rigotti in 1900, and is often regarded as the first assault rifle. Over the next few years (1903 and 1911) there were improvements to its internal functions, such as its gas operation. This is also what made the Cei-Rigotti so modern, the fact that it was the first time a gas operated action was successfully used in a rifle. The rifle also featured 6.5x52mm munition in what was probably a 25 round detachable box magazine. The system, although not actually used by any army (possibly because of unreliability), was remade in Switzerland, Russia, Austria. These variations featured 8x56mm munition (Austria) and 7,62x54mm (Russia)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cei-Rigotti
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Assault_rifle
http://www.fas.org/news/reference/probert/F3.HTM
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm

As for the AK-47 ,according to Kalashnikov all he used from the German example is the 7.62 ammunition. However, the Soviets wanted a new design because they were impressed with the German weapon, so in that small respect you can say that they based the AK47 on it, but that would like saying that all future jets was based on the Me-262. They are all jets, but they aren't based on it.


And the Italian CC 2 made what people thought was to be the world’s first jet powered flight in May 28, 1940. But then it was long after the war when records and documents showed that a He 178 made the first flight with a true jet engine the year before.

 

JC

Why the sad face? The lad is just doing what you want him to do. Search for threads instead of starting a new one...

 

Hey Spearhead MP, I heard they have a bunch of PPSh-41, M1911 and other assorted venerable weapons... a waste so many were scrapped.

 

I have heard of Nagants, SKS, MG42's and so on all in use. There is that classic pic of (I believe) a US Marine using a PPSh for street fighting in Iraq.

 

The Mg-42 is still built in Czechoslovakia in the original 7.92mm. Portugal still builds the MG-3 which is essentially an Mg-42 rechambered for the 7.62mm Nato.



Cheers...